PS5 has sold more than 533,000 units In February NPD, breaking the record set by PS2 in 2005

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

@Welfare if sales didn't matter anymore for Microsoft, they'd have stopped reporting Xbox sales revenue altogether. Or, we'd get a LOT more of those player metrics you care about so much, in the fiscals.

Instead we don't even get Game Pass subscriber counts NOR Game Pass revenue figures, for a service that is claimed to be driving so much player engagement and user metrics? Surely huge growth in user metrics could be correlated to some precise degree in Game Pass revenue, and if the metrics are so great, therefore the revenue so great, ...why has Microsoft not once given Game Pass revenue figures for ANY quarter or fiscal year?

Heck, I figure you'd be pressing for that a lot more. After all, you say "sales don't matter", but even you acknowledge console sales matter because you're obsessed with trying to figure out Xbox's through hardware revenue figures. If you're here saying software sales don't matter, and advocate that Microsoft's strategy is pivoted around Game Pass, then why are you saying silly metrics like how many people downloaded/booted up a game (because that's the baseline for metrics like " millions players played (x) game") matter just as much if not more than copies sold? Shouldn't someone like you be asking for the revenue boosts specific games bring to a service like Game Pass, at the very least?

You have completely different metrics for measuring the success of Xbox hardware vs software vs services and ironically they all take the path most convenient to propagate a successful Microsoft image in gaming even if real data doesn't support it. But worst than that, the inconsistency betrays your own revenue driven logic and makes Microsoft as a company look stupid. These companies, even Microsoft, ultimately care about money. Revenue. Profit. MAUs, number of balls thrown in space, number of miles driven don't mean shit if it's not contributing to the bottom line.

Considering Microsoft have yet to share Game Pass revenue figures with shareholders, and don't provide 1P software revenue figures either for that matter, the most sensible conclusion is that these things are probably not looking very good in their numbers, regardless of any throwaway player metrics can be tossed around.

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

I also want a lapdance from Jennifer Lawrence. Doesn't mean it will happen, but hey, if we do live in the multiverse, somewhere another me is enjoying it right now.



How many copies did they sell?



It shouldn't upset anybody if the game is played by 10, 20, or 50M people. But the point here, which you're trying to strawman yourself out of, is SALES.



Let's make this simple: You release a game which cost you 200k to develop. You decide to put it on gamepass for 200k, breaking even. Your game ends up being played by 2M people. Do you know how much money you made? 200k.

Now, on the same scenario, you release your game and sell 25k copies. Each copy is being sold for 20 dollars. Even after store fees and taxes, you're making a profit.

Which one would you prefer? To make money out of your creation or to watch people say they're very happy they got it for free?#



They are real users, and they're also very stupid. They're contributing towards an industry that will not be able to fund games from sales, and will need to fund them with even more microtransactions. Imagine paying to access fremium games.



Of course its not, because MS had to come up with their bullshit metrics to justify keeping a failed business open. As for "streaming logic 101", it's working great for all the streaming companies. It's absolutely a profitable endeavour that doesn't cannibalise your returns whatsoever.



Is it though? Let's do some math. If I'm subscribed to gamepass, I pay 144 quid per year. 2 games is 160 quid more or less if AAA. Let's say after manufacturing and retail costs, 2 games is 100 quid gross. Oh no, i'm losing money! However, my beautiful streaming service requires millions thrown at it to maintain infrastructure, add more games, etc. So in the end, the lad that buys 2 games per year is actually more profitable to me than the guy that subscribes and gets all the crap "for free".

Now, microsoft may prefer the streaming scenario because they want to devalue gaming, but that's their whole angle: Gobble the industry, devalue it, and shovel people on their shit service.



They bought them to keep their games away from the competition first and foremost. The second objective yeah, to bury them on gamepass and eventually close their studios because those games will not be profitable.



Xbox was never profitable except for a couple of quarters. Trying to ignore this is being willfully ignorant.

You wasted your time writing a logical argument when the guy has broken logic gates.

 

[Gediminas]

You guys are placing too much emphasis on total software sales for Xbox. And I never said Starfield would sell a certain amount of copies. The point of bringing up past Bethesda sales numbers was to illustrate that their games are hyper popular and have clout to throw around. People will try Starfield, millions of people. The whole point for Xbox is that they want to grow Game Pass by millions of subscribers every year.

Can their games still sell well? Yes. Forza Horizon 3, 4, and 5 were/are great sellers on Xbox, and Steam sales for Microsoft titles like Halo MCC and Forza and Age of Empires are all great.

With that, Microsoft still wants Game Pass to grow because the more users that have it, the greater impact on impressions and word of mouth there is.

If Game Pass didn't exist today and Starfield was Xbox/PC exclusive, it'd sell at best maybe 5-8M in the first month. 2-3M in Xbox and 3-5M on PC. With Game Pass, and I'm sorry if this upsets some of you, it'll easily be played by +10M people in weeks if not days. Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite did the same.

Microsoft's entire 1st party strategy since 2018 is to maximize reach and get as large of a recurring subscriber base as possible.

Look at games like Hi-Fi Rush and Grounded. HFR was played by 2M people thanks to Game Pass, how many copies do you think that sells without GP, 500K maybe? Grounded has been played by over 10M people now, how many units is Grounded selling if Game Pass doesn't exist?

What are your opinions on Xbox Cloud Streaming where all you need is a GP Ultimate sub and you can play Xbox exclusives on your phone? No need to buy the game, and over 10M people have used XCG, are those just not real users to you, or are worth less than a $70 purchase?

The sales success of a game is not a primary factor for Xbox anymore, this is just an objective fact and has been since 2018. You can bring up Sony and Nintendo and any other publisher and it'd mean nothing. The more people that interact with your product, the better. It's current streaming logic 101. Microsoft would much rather have 5M people play an exclusive and stay subbed to Game Pass than that same game only sell 2M units. The value of a long term Game Pass subscriber is worth more than someone who buys 1 or 2 games a year.

Microsoft didn't buy Bethesda and Activision to just have more games that sell millions, they were bought to put value in Game Pass and expand the brand's reach.

It's been 5 years since Xbox started putting their games in Game Pass Day 1. Questioning the strategy and benefits of it at this point is being willfully ignorant.

i will explain this like you are retarded 5 years old kid.

i open cake shop. my goal to stay alive and live is to sell cakes for such profit, which offset cost of materials, workers and loaning the place.

it means, i MUST sell cakes.

You, like other xbots can't grasp, that it doesn't matter how many people visit my shop, 1000 or 2000, if non of them are buying my cakes, i will go bankrupt and have to close my shop. so yeah, only measure of successful business is cakes sold at the margin which will sustain my business and more.

that's how basic business works.

so you can parrot whatever bullshit you want, all industry except m$, can't say bullshit like - sales don't matter, because for everyone else, it is life or death.

 

[anonpuffs]

With that, Microsoft still wants Game Pass to grow because the more users that have it, the greater impact on impressions and word of mouth there is.

If Game Pass didn't exist today and Starfield was Xbox/PC exclusive, it'd sell at best maybe 5-8M in the first month. 2-3M in Xbox and 3-5M on PC. With Game Pass, and I'm sorry if this upsets some of you, it'll easily be played by +10M people in weeks if not days. Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite did the same.

Microsoft's entire 1st party strategy since 2018 is to maximize reach and get as large of a recurring subscriber base as possible.

Look at games like Hi-Fi Rush and Grounded. HFR was played by 2M people thanks to Game Pass, how many copies do you think that sells without GP, 500K maybe? Grounded has been played by over 10M people now, how many units is Grounded selling if Game Pass doesn't exist?

Just a question here. If a game is played by 10 million people, what exactly does that do for the service or the game? You're conflating player numbers (which we have no indication of the methodology used to reach these numbers) with the success of the service. If 10 million people played grounded and it convinced 2 million people to stop subscribing to gamepass is that a success or a failure? What about Hi-fi rush, does it matter that x millions of people played it if only 5% of them found it good enough to finish the game? I don't understand what reasoning you are using to arrive at the conclusion that "more players = more better [sic]". There's a reason that working for exposure is generally considered exploitative and a scam.

....snip...

The sales success of a game is not a primary factor for Xbox anymore, this is just an objective fact and has been since 2018.

No. It is not an objective fact, it is a supposition based on speculation. We know this because Microsoft doesn't hesitate to talk about sales figures on the rare occasions when they are good.

Microsoft didn't buy Bethesda and Activision to just have more games that sell millions, they were bought to put value in Game Pass and expand the brand's reach.

It's been 5 years since Xbox started putting their games in Game Pass Day 1. Questioning the strategy and benefits of it at this point is being willfully ignorant.

So now we can't even question the strategy?

Why not? Gamepass has officially missed its growth targets the last 2 fiscal years and is on track to miss it for the 3rd year in a row inferring from the public statements microsoft representatives like Phil Spencer have stated publicly. So why can't we question it?

You still haven't answered on what grounds you've unilaterally decided that software sales don't matter to Microsoft/Xbox. Because Phil said so? Lol ok, then if Gamepass is all that matters then why don't you believe Phil when he said that gamepass is 10-15% of Xbox revenue and will continue to be that?

 

[KiryuRealty]

I officially estimate that Microsoft has sold 11 Xbox Series X consoles this week and half a tuna sandwich.

 

[ethomaz]

I officially estimate that Microsoft has sold 11 Xbox Series X consoles this week and half a tuna sandwich.

Are they selling the Xbox Refrigerator yet?

 

[KiryuRealty]

Are they selling the Xbox Refrigerator yet?

Not yet, but 30,000 people looked at a xeroxed photo of one, so the engagement is off the charts! Huge success!

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

Are they selling the Xbox Refrigerator yet?

100,000 tuna sandwiches were stored in their xbox refrigerator last month. So, 100,000 refrigerators were sold.

 

[Welfare]

I don't even know anymore. This is how Microsoft have operated for 5 years, half a decade now, and you still refuse to acknowledge what their strategy is? As they're spending $70B on Activision?

Everything you wrote can be summed up as "sales dont matter." Ok maybe to microsoft the company, sales no longer matter, for now. For individual studios and creatives? They absolutely matter hence almost every xbox studio having studio founders and talent leave on a almost monthly basis.

Like this comment.

First off, prove that "almost every xbox studio having studio founders and talent leave on a almost monthly basis.".

Second, do you not see how Microsoft has prioritized buying publishers and signing new Game Pass deals over maximizing "unit sales".

If I detail Microsoft's strategy since 2018 and you come to the conclusion that sales don't matter, that's your conclusion.

So fuck the game industry let's suck Microsoft schlong

And then there's shit like this. What are you on about? How does me detailing Microsoft's strategy = what you posted? Are you afraid of Game Pass?

It's like I'm reading some kind of PR speech from a Microsoft employee
To be honest, it just doesn't make sense.
GamePass can't reach 30 million subscribers for how long? Two years?
All these marketing slogans make no sense if the investment from the cost of games is not returned in full.
Everything Microsoft has been doing for the past 5 years has been spending money on the xbox brand with no real return.

And if the position of their consoles in the market (Together with the position of subscriptions) does not change dramatically, then all this bullshit about "BILLIONS OF PLAYERS IN HALO INFINITY" will not make any sense

Again, me just saying what is plain as day about Microsoft's strategy = PR?

Damn, guess if anyone dares to say Sony is successful because they make quality games and hardware, that's PR!

Game Pass subscriber history

April 2020: +10M
September 2020: 15M
January 2021: 18M
January 2022: 25M

They haven't had a big new game in the service since holiday 2021. Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite in holiday 2021 was the last big event for Xbox, and either Starfield or Activision games going in Game Pass will be the next major event, 18 to 21 months later.

It's actually impressive that Game Pass can maintain 25M subscriptions, if it's still at 25M.

If you can understand why MS...

• Dropped the number of titles in development and takes years to release a single game
• Dropped the quality of their own first-party in both content and overall presentation
• Focused in GAAS games

... and can't even question that strategy.

Then you is more biased than I thought you ever where... you eat MS marketing at breakfast.

I will be fine because I don't play on Xbox but who know how much these that play will sufer until left the boat

I've absolutely questioned why Microsoft has had a year plus long drought since 2021. That's not because of the Game Pass strategy lmao that's just a shit job of making sure big games come out at a decent pace.

Also uh, what quality drop? Their recent games like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment were received well, and their last major games FH5 and Halo Infinite won plenty of critic and fan votes?

Even with GAAS, Microsoft has plenty of single player games in development like Starfield, Hellblade 2, Avowed, etc.

And to burst your bubble Sony is going hard into GAAS as well.

And again, using my eyes to see what Microsoft is doing, is me eating Microsoft marketing.

Just like how I didn't know what I was talking about with Series X being in low supply, I was just making excuses or whatever, but once Mat from NPD says the exact same thing everyone moves on

Hardware numbers don't matter, software sales don't matter, market share doesn't matter, profit doesn't matter.

Do subs still matter or have we also moved past that now that MS hasn't updated the numbers in a long time and missed their targets?

There is absolutely nothing impressive about Xbox except the amount of money MS is still willing to spend to keep it going.

Is everything black and white? Microsoft has different priorities compared to Sony and Nintendo. Are you going to question why Nintendo is making the Switch and not a direct competitor to PS5 and Series X, or do you realize Nintendo's hardware priorities are different?

Hardware obviously matters, it's a quick and easy way to sell more Game Pass subs. We've seen recently in the last FY report for Microsoft that Game Pass growth was far less than expected which is due to console sales not really growing at a 2x rate. The only source of major growth right now for GP has been the PC side.

If Microsoft cared 0 about software, they'd stop selling games and force you to buy Game Pass for Starfield. They aren't doing that though.

This.

Youre correct, NOTHING MATTERS, except stamping sony out of the games industry. Thats Xbox's charter at this point.

Yeah, absolutely... >.>

Come on, are Game Pass and player numbers that scary?

their games are not hyper popular. like, at all.

Bethesda games are which is what I said. This is not debatable. Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 and 4 are some of the most popular games to ever exist.

I also want a lapdance from Jennifer Lawrence. Doesn't mean it will happen, but hey, if we do live in the multiverse, somewhere another me is enjoying it right now.



How many copies did they sell?



It shouldn't upset anybody if the game is played by 10, 20, or 50M people. But the point here, which you're trying to strawman yourself out of, is SALES.



Let's make this simple: You release a game which cost you 200k to develop. You decide to put it on gamepass for 200k, breaking even. Your game ends up being played by 2M people. Do you know how much money you made? 200k.

Now, on the same scenario, you release your game and sell 25k copies. Each copy is being sold for 20 dollars. Even after store fees and taxes, you're making a profit.

Which one would you prefer? To make money out of your creation or to watch people say they're very happy they got it for free?#



They are real users, and they're also very stupid. They're contributing towards an industry that will not be able to fund games from sales, and will need to fund them with even more microtransactions. Imagine paying to access fremium games.



Of course its not, because MS had to come up with their bullshit metrics to justify keeping a failed business open. As for "streaming logic 101", it's working great for all the streaming companies. It's absolutely a profitable endeavour that doesn't cannibalise your returns whatsoever.



Is it though? Let's do some math. If I'm subscribed to gamepass, I pay 144 quid per year. 2 games is 160 quid more or less if AAA. Let's say after manufacturing and retail costs, 2 games is 100 quid gross. Oh no, i'm losing money! However, my beautiful streaming service requires millions thrown at it to maintain infrastructure, add more games, etc. So in the end, the lad that buys 2 games per year is actually more profitable to me than the guy that subscribes and gets all the crap "for free".

Now, microsoft may prefer the streaming scenario because they want to devalue gaming, but that's their whole angle: Gobble the industry, devalue it, and shovel people on their shit service.



They bought them to keep their games away from the competition first and foremost. The second objective yeah, to bury them on gamepass and eventually close their studios because those games will not be profitable.



Xbox was never profitable except for a couple of quarters. Trying to ignore this is being willfully ignorant.

And this post as well, do I have to bring up all the indie devs that sing the praises of Game Pass and how sales for their games on other platforms get boosted because of word of mouth?

This isn't a zero sum game.

The absolute fear I'm reading from some of these posts about Xbox and Cloud gaming and Game Pass are out of this world. Please get out of this 2014 EA Access is going to ruin gaming phase, please.

Nintendo will still make Mario and Zelda, Kratos will still get his God of War games on PS6 7 and 8. Steam isn't going to get absorbed into Microsoft. Etc etc.

Devalue the industry lmao because that argument really worked last year for Sony when trying to stop the ABK deal.

@Welfare if sales didn't matter anymore for Microsoft, they'd have stopped reporting Xbox sales revenue altogether. Or, we'd get a LOT more of those player metrics you care about so much, in the fiscals.

Instead we don't even get Game Pass subscriber counts NOR Game Pass revenue figures, for a service that is claimed to be driving so much player engagement and user metrics? Surely huge growth in user metrics could be correlated to some precise degree in Game Pass revenue, and if the metrics are so great, therefore the revenue so great, ...why has Microsoft not once given Game Pass revenue figures for ANY quarter or fiscal year?

Heck, I figure you'd be pressing for that a lot more. After all, you say "sales don't matter", but even you acknowledge console sales matter because you're obsessed with trying to figure out Xbox's through hardware revenue figures. If you're here saying software sales don't matter, and advocate that Microsoft's strategy is pivoted around Game Pass, then why are you saying silly metrics like how many people downloaded/booted up a game (because that's the baseline for metrics like " millions players played (x) game") matter just as much if not more than copies sold? Shouldn't someone like you be asking for the revenue boosts specific games bring to a service like Game Pass, at the very least?

You have completely different metrics for measuring the success of Xbox hardware vs software vs services and ironically they all take the path most convenient to propagate a successful Microsoft image in gaming even if real data doesn't support it. But worst than that, the inconsistency betrays your own revenue driven logic and makes Microsoft as a company look stupid. These companies, even Microsoft, ultimately care about money. Revenue. Profit. MAUs, number of balls thrown in space, number of miles driven don't mean shit if it's not contributing to the bottom line.

Considering Microsoft have yet to share Game Pass revenue figures with shareholders, and don't provide 1P software revenue figures either for that matter, the most sensible conclusion is that these things are probably not looking very good in their numbers, regardless of any throwaway player metrics can be tossed around.

Microsoft is shit company that hides data and will probably hide Activision data when they fully integrate.

Like, they wouldn't even report XBS sales when it was above XB1 since Q2 2021. Game Pass numbers only came out when it was either a milestone or the end of the year. Maybe we get an update when the ABK deal closes because the 25M number was given when the ABK deal was announced, but we'll never get quarter to quarter numbers.

But on the matter of revenue, Xbox has been making more than ever. Content and Services specifically have been making around $12B a year since 2020. I mean, the strategy is working.

Content and Services Calendar Year
2018: ~$8.8B
2019: ~$8.7B
2020: ~$11.6B
2021: ~$12.6B
2022: ~$12.0B

Also, my preferences on how to gauge Xbox's success and Microsoft's preference are two completely different things. And again, me explaining Microsoft's strategy since 2018 is not advocating.

People have been saying for years that hardware for Xbox doesn't matter and I will always fight that. An Xbox with 50M units and 100M units will greatly impact how many subscribers Game Pass has. Problem is, the market for dedicated hardware is pretty much solved. At most, a game console is going to sell between 100M and 150M. The combined market for PS/Xbox is ~170M to 180M for the past three generations. We can also see PlayStation Plus subscriber numbers stagnate around 50M, so even if Xbox does 100M, Game Pass most likely caps at 40-50M

The only way to grow that number is what Microsoft is doing. Investing in cloud and PC. Personally, I hate that the Cloud servers use Series X chips because those are chips that should be in actual X units to be bought. I think 1-2M Series X's would be better than server blades, but 10M people have used Xbox Cloud Gaming .

Also to the clown calling me a retard, you do realize Xbox is still making money right? They've made more money in the past 3 years from games and services than they did the 5 years prior.

2015-2019: ~$35.75B
2020-2022: ~$36.10B

Just keep crying or whatever it is that you're doing, that Xbox has been successful in making an alternative to outright buying games.

Again, it's been 5 years since Microsoft has pivoted to Game Pass. Get over it.

 

[Bryank75]

Just a heads-up... I don't want anything that could be deemed as dogpiling or attacks on @Welfare

Make your points as politely as possible please.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't even know anymore. This is how Microsoft have operated for 5 years, half a decade now, and you still refuse to acknowledge what their strategy is? As they're spending $70B on Activision?

That is how you believe MS operated...
I'm 100% sure they care about units sales and profit...

But say the guy that believe MS left over 4 million units of Series S in shelves and at the same time say they don't care about units sales.
You need to choose a side

BTW Halo Infinite is the perfect case of how Gamepass affect it quality, content and pushed it to GAAS model... just to reply to your other quote to me.

 

[Darth Vader]

And this post as well, do I have to bring up all the indie devs that sing the praises of Game Pass and how sales for their games on other platforms get boosted because of word of mouth?

Next time I go on Tesco I'll pay them with word of mouth. Usually it doesn't work, but I'll try. Also:

https://www.thegamer.com/microsoft-xbox-game-pass-negatively-impacts-sales/

The absolute fear I'm reading from some of these posts about Xbox and Cloud gaming and Game Pass are out of this world. Please get out of this 2014 EA Access is going to ruin gaming phase, please.

Yes, people are afraid that their service and their predatory business practices of taking away multiplatform games from other console manufacturers will not only devalue gaming as a whole but also remove CHOICE from buyers.

Devalue the industry lmao because that argument really worked last year for Sony when trying to stop the ABK deal.

Another strawman. What does that have to do with gamepass devaluing gaming?

 

[Darth Vader]

Just a heads-up... I don't want anything that could be deemed as dogpiling or attacks on @Welfare

Make your points as politely as possible please.

Same way he refuses to concede on objective data and keeps arguing for BS? Because I'm more than happy to be very polite if the other side is trying to have a conversation and not pull bad faith arguments and strawman.

 

[Welfare]

Just a question here. If a game is played by 10 million people, what exactly does that do for the service or the game? You're conflating player numbers (which we have no indication of the methodology used to reach these numbers) with the success of the service. If 10 million people played grounded and it convinced 2 million people to stop subscribing to gamepass is that a success or a failure? What about Hi-fi rush, does it matter that x millions of people played it if only 5% of them found it good enough to finish the game? I don't understand what reasoning you are using to arrive at the conclusion that "more players = more better [sic]". There's a reason that working for exposure is generally considered exploitative and a scam.



No. It is not an objective fact, it is a supposition based on speculation. We know this because Microsoft doesn't hesitate to talk about sales figures on the rare occasions when they are good.


So now we can't even question the strategy?

Why not? Gamepass has officially missed its growth targets the last 2 fiscal years and is on track to miss it for the 3rd year in a row inferring from the public statements microsoft representatives like Phil Spencer have stated publicly. So why can't we question it?

You still haven't answered on what grounds you've unilaterally decided that software sales don't matter to Microsoft/Xbox. Because Phil said so? Lol ok, then if Gamepass is all that matters then why don't you believe Phil when he said that gamepass is 10-15% of Xbox revenue and will continue to be that?

Microsoft isn't even the first company to care about player numbers. The whole point of wanting 10M players to play your game over 5M is to make more players engaged.

Do you question why Activision made a F2P COD? Warzone boosted the popularity of the brand to a new peak because more people could play the game. Same exact reasoning for Game Pass. More people playing games results in more exposure.

Microsoft is not going to cancel a game or close a studio because it'll only sell X units, or didn't sell some arbitrary million milestone. Pentiment is the prime example for this. They allowed freaking Bleeding Edge to survive and make it to the store.

I'd argue Game Pass missed targets for one, because the impact of COVID dropped faster than Microsoft anticipated in 2021, and 2, Xbox hardware didn't grow by much in 2022 while also having a non existent lineup last year. We know PC Game Pass is booming, it grew 159% one quarter last year. Microsoft are also investing in doubling their cloud server capacity.

And what I mean by Xbox hardware not growing as much, is new users. The current Xbox audience should already be tapped in terms of Game Pass conversion. The only way for Xbox to grow Game Pass subs in a meaningful is for new users to buy them. Otherwise, growth can only come from PC and Cloud Streaming.

We will know what impact Starfield and Hellblade 2 and Forza have this Fiscal Year, by how much Game Pass misses targets, if it does miss at all.

Software unit sales aren't going to break the bank anymore. If this era of Microsoft were back in 2014-2017, games like Scalebound, Phantom Dust, and Fable Legends would not have been cancelled. They would've been allowed to complete development and be out on Game Pass. That's what it means to say software sales don't matter.

Maybe that's too blunt, but how else would you describe it? How would you or anyone else actually explain Microsoft's current strategy around games and services? How important has unit sales been since 2018?

 

[Darth Vader]

Maybe that's too blunt, but how else would you describe it? How would you or anyone else actually explain Microsoft's current strategy around games and services? How important had unit sales been since 2018?

They haven't been important since the Xbox One fiasco. Before then they were very important. You do the math.

 

[Bryank75]

Same way he refuses to concede on objective data and keeps arguing for BS? Because I'm more than happy to be very polite if the other side is trying to have a conversation and not pull bad faith arguments and strawman.

If you feel that arguments are being made in bad faith etc, you can call that out.... (of course)

But I would rather that negative emotions were left to the side, that is all. I don't want well made points being dragged down by / into ad hominem or lesser reasoning.

 

[KiryuRealty]

Microsoft isn't even the first company to care about player numbers. The whole point of wanting 10M players to play your game over 5M is to make more players engaged.

Do you question why Activision made a F2P COD? Warzone boosted the popularity of the brand to a new peak because more people could play the game. Same exact reasoning for Game Pass. More people playing games results in more exposure.

Microsoft is not going to cancel a game or close a studio because it'll only sell X units, or didn't sell some arbitrary million milestone. Pentiment is the prime example for this. They allowed freaking Bleeding Edge to survive and make it to the store.

I'd argue Game Pass missed targets for one, because the impact of COVID dropped faster than Microsoft anticipated in 2021, and 2, Xbox hardware didn't grow by much in 2022 while also having a non existent lineup last year. We know PC Game Pass is booming, it grew 159% one quarter last year. Microsoft are also investing in doubling their cloud server capacity.

And what I mean by Xbox hardware not growing as much, is new users. The current Xbox audience should already be tapped in terms of Game Pass conversion. The only way for Xbox to grow Game Pass subs in a meaningful is for new users to buy them. Otherwise, growth can only come from PC and Cloud Streaming.

We will know what impact Starfield and Hellblade 2 and Forza have this Fiscal Year, by how much Game Pass misses targets, if it does miss at all.

Software unit sales aren't going to break the bank anymore. If this era of Microsoft were back in 2014-2017, games like Scalebound, Phantom Dust, and Fable Legends would not have been cancelled. They would've been allowed to complete development and be out on Game Pass. That's what it means to say software sales don't matter.

Maybe that's too blunt, but how else would you describe it? How would you or anyone else actually explain Microsoft's current strategy around games and services? How important has unit sales been since 2018?

If we hadn't been told to be nice to you, this is the point where a bunch of us would comment about how Phil's scrotum smells like your mouthwash.

Since we have been asked to be nice to you for some reason, I won't say that.

I will simply say that one who transparently cheerleads for a company the way you do and disregards key points of data because they prove your calculations to be complete fabrications will rightly be regarded as a shill, and mocked, ridiculed and laughed at for the lengths you go to in your futile efforts to have your ridiculous posts taken seriously.

Denying that MS reporting only sell-in matters when looking at their numbers over the years was a rather huge red flag, and you have only gone to more ridiculous extremes and even more aggressive fanboy bait posts.

If you aren't here to engage in good faith discussions, I am sure we can have someone help you find a convenient exit.

 

[Welfare]

That is how you believe MS operated...
I'm 100% sure they care about units sales and profit...

But say the guy that believe MS left over 4 million units of Series S in shelves and at the same time say they don't care about units sales.
You need to choose a side

BTW Halo Infinite is the perfect case of how Gamepass affect it quality, content and pushed it to GAAS model... just to reply to your other quote to me.

Game Pass is not why Infinite happened the way it did.

343 has been poorly ran for years since Halo 4 and they wasted 6 years on Infinite. That's not Game Pass, that's shitty management at 343, when a studio like The Coalition could pump out Gears 4 and 5 in 5 years.

Next time I go on Tesco I'll pay them with word of mouth. Usually it doesn't work, but I'll try. Also:

https://www.thegamer.com/microsoft-xbox-game-pass-negatively-impacts-sales/

Yes, people are afraid that their service and their predatory business practices of taking away multiplatform games from other console manufacturers will not only devalue gaming as a whole but also remove CHOICE from buyers.



Another strawman. What does that have to do with gamepass devaluing gaming?

Game Pass is not devaluing games. Simple as that. What a weird stance. I didn't realize that when I played Persona 5 Royal I played an objectively worse version, all because I played on Game Pass Ultimate.

Tell me this guy is lying, I dare you

Indie Studio Founder Says Xbox Game Pass Relieves Pressure From Devs

Mike Rose, the founder of No More Robots, has said that Xbox Game Pass helps alleviate pressure on developers and ensures success.

exputer.com

Same way he refuses to concede on objective data and keeps arguing for BS? Because I'm more than happy to be very polite if the other side is trying to have a conversation and not pull bad faith arguments and strawman.

What objective data says anything about how Microsoft operates Xbox? Your opinions about Game Pass is not data.

How am I using bad faith arguments when I'm just describing how Microsoft works?

 

[KiryuRealty]

Game Pass is not why Infinite happened the way it did.

343 has been poorly ran for years since Halo 4 and they wasted 6 years on Infinite. That's not Game Pass, that's shitty management at 343, when a studio like The Coalition could pump out Gears 4 and 5 in 5 years.

Game Pass is not devaluing games. Simple as that. What a weird stance. I didn't realize that when I played Persona 5 Royal I played an objectively worse version, all because I played on Game Pass Ultimate.

Tell me this guy is lying, I dare you

Indie Studio Founder Says Xbox Game Pass Relieves Pressure From Devs

Mike Rose, the founder of No More Robots, has said that Xbox Game Pass helps alleviate pressure on developers and ensures success.

exputer.com

What objective data says anything about how Microsoft operates Xbox? Your opinions about Game Pass is not data.

How am I using bad faith arguments when I'm just describing how Microsoft works?

If Game Pass isn’t devaluing games, why are Xbox gamers not buying ANY games in any kind of sustainable quantities anymore, regardless of being on Game Pass or not?

 

[Nhomnhom]

If Game Pass isn’t devaluing games, why are Xbox gamers not buying ANY games in any kind of sustainable quantities anymore, regardless of being on Game Pass or not?

Not only that, Xbox core fans are so against buying games that they now fantasize about MS buying even more publishers just to have those games included on Gamepass (that they have stacked for years using some 1$ conversion trick). Hardly seems like they are fostering a healthy environment for games to be successful.

Now all hope lies in Starfield a game that looks far worse than games release 5 years ago on the PS4 and runs at 30fps. I just can't wait for the excuses if it doesn't change much for the Xbox right around the time that Spider-man 2 and PS5 Slim are expected to be hitting the market.