PS5 hits 61m as Sony’s year-on-year Q1 hardware sales fall but operating income rises

Dabaus

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In all the previous generations, the price of the components needed to manufacture a console got cheaper over time, eventually allowing them to end selling the console at a profit, or giving them room to apply price cuts.

This generation the opposite happened: the components got more and more expensive due to huge demand of covid (may people bought PCs/laptops/tablets/etc) and because other industries required a shit ton of chips more than usual: electronic currency farming, electronic vehicles, servers for AI etc. The fuel pricing also increased, making shipments more expensive. And there's also a big global inflation, which also increases prices in general.

So initially things were as usual: had great launch window sales to the point they were able to sell some SKUs at profit, but costs unusually started to grow and grow to the point that the loses per hardware unit sold were too high and they had to increase prices and do some actions (in a revision they changed some components to be able to use multiple providers and don't depend on a single one) to compensate it and keep it at decent levels. Not only happened to Sony, but almost everyone even beyond consoles or gaming.

Totoki (Sony Chief of Finantials Operations) explained this some time ago and said that looking forward will be difficult to reduce these costs. I assume not only because of the costs themselves, but because seems that we'll continue with big inflation in upcoming years, and the USA vs China competition may affect their business in the future. So to assuming that hardware will provide them loses they can avoid, he wants to maximize the profit in all the other areas to compensate loses from hardware: console game, addons and accesories sold for PS, PS+ subscriptions, SIE revenue outside PS, etc.


No, it's normal on this point of a console sales cycle: the sales of all consoles make a curve and after their peak -which all 3 consoles of this gen already passed- their yearly sales normally decrease every year.

As we seen in some graph of this thread, launch aligned it's performing almost at the same level than their best selling consoles ever, PS2 and PS4:

OmSIU4U.png


With the difference that PS5 had the chip shortages issues and has not been able to apply the price cuts that all the previous consoles had at this point, and instead had to increase prices.

But now Sony gets more money than ever from each console sold not only because sells the console more expensive: but because their users spend more money than ever on games (game sales + addons), game subs and accesories etc. Players also spend more time there (not only in PS5, many still are on PS4), which leads to think that in the future these users will continue there spending money and at the end of the generation will have spent way more money than in the previous one.

In fact this fiscal year the generation will become the top grossing one for them, and already generated more profit than all the previous ones combined:

image.png


They are more than fine. Obviously if would be great to find some solution that would allow them to price cut the console at least in some key European country without killing the profits, but as of now the priority for them is to maximize profit because costs and inflation very likely will continue rising the years ahead, and also because to have a gazillion superexpensive first party games under development is very risky, and it's impossible to avoid that from time to time some game will get cancelled or will tank.

Worldwide -and particularly western- economy seems that will struggle in following years, so it's time to focus on profitability and save money for the future just in case they need it.
Id imagine Microsoft has all of the same problems except they were already bleeding 100-200 dollars on each console sold BEFORE all of the factors you mentioned.
 

SuperPotato

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disagree, native play will always exist, specially because the blades that run these games are console blades

Maybe it will still exist but the vast majority will move away. Dedicated gaming hardware will end up like Vinyls. Great for audiophiles but irrelevant to everyone else.
 

Yurinka

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Yes, of course. The one variable making a difference, however, is Sony’s inability to lower the price of the PS5 at this point in the generation. We know smaller nodes are super expensive right now, so there is nothing Sony can do really.
Yep. I think that the best option for them is pretty similar to what they are doing:
  • Maximize profitability not only in hardware, but also in all their other areas to compensate the loses coming from hardware, to the point that extra profitability is big enough for them to allow a price cut.
  • Once that global profitability per user reached a certain point (maybe $60 per user more than they do now), apply a small price cut (maybe $50) worldwide. If not possible worldwide, at least in EU only since EU is the only market where is behind.
  • If needed, include some benefit for those who upgrade from PS4 to PS5: something like "during these 3 months, PS4 users who activate a new PS5 get 1 year/3 months of PS+ Premium (or Extra)"
We also have to consider that there's something unique this generation: due to how important GaaS became, and the length of AAA developments, the previous gen is still getting great support almost 4 years after the debut of the current gen. So a ton of players, -a few months ago we saw it's around half of their active userbase- still has not upgraded to the next generation.

Meaning, pretty likely once the best selling, most played IPs stop getting previous gen support for their new games and existing GaaS, many of the people still playing on PS4 will migrate to PS5. As I remember FIFA, CoD, GTA or AC will do it this next year. I assume won't happen, but it would be nice if Fortnite, Apex, Rainbow Six would follow.
 
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Puff

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like i said, once PC is not enough for them, they'll port games to Switch 2, they're already starting to do that with LEGO games on the 2017 Switch... with Switch 2 being as powerful as a PS4 i can easily see them porting Horizon Zero Dawn, Forbidden West, God Of War 2018, God Of War Ragnarok... all the PS4 backlog... and then some people will use the excuse "oh, but these are old games, no one cares about them", watch it.

I am 100% sure, they will do it. The PlayStation we all know and love died a long time ago.
 

Etifilio

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The Deck is a whole gen behind the PS5 and it can only run verified games reliably without getting into issues/tinkering. It's a niche product aimed at PC gamers who want a portable option.
Switch Deck will have future iterations that will be more powerful, this is not the only one, but was one example since most PS Studios PC ports are Steam Deck Vertified.
 

Etifilio

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I am 100% sure, they will do it. The PlayStation we all know and love died a long time ago.
they will because it's never enough for them... 10 - 20M copies of each game only on their box was not enough. they're obsessed with growth, so obsessed that they don't respect the legacy of their own products anymore, Horizon Zero Dawn will be the first Switch 2 port that they'll do, they always start with Guerilla (Hermen Hulst's studio) coincidentally...
 
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Etifilio

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Yep. I think that the best option for them is pretty similar to what they are doing:
  • Maximize profitability not only in hardware, but also in all their other areas to compensate the loses coming from hardware, to the point that extra profitability is big enough for them to allow a price cut.
  • Once that global profitability per user reached a certain point (maybe $60 per user more than they do now), apply a small price cut (maybe $50) worldwide. If not possible worldwide, at least in EU only since EU is the only market where is behind.
  • If needed, include some benefit for those who upgrade from PS4 to PS5: something like "during these 3 months, PS4 users who activate a new PS5 get 1 year/3 months of PS+ Premium (or Extra)"
will you have these same arguments and texts once they start porting older games to rival consoles like the Switch 2? cause it's definetly gonna happen
 

Danja

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Except he talks without context and just compares some numbers. It's COMPLETELY idiotic to compare products with a price difference of $200 AND supply issues for the first 2 years of release. Utterly idiotic.

Again with the Switch narrative. Some of you are in for a rude awakening when Switch 2 doesn't do nearly as well as the first one.
But the context of his entire post is spot on though?? People aren't jumping in because of price and lack of exclusives... They can also stick to the cheaper PS4 and enjoy all the bigger games still.... Why not give these people a reason to upgrade from the old hardware.

PlayStation is not an iPhone you can't change your tune of trying to maintain a premium price all gen and bleeding your user base... After setting a precedent for the last 4 decades of offering subsidized entries at slight loss that will be made back through software.

It's a clown show over there
 

ToTTenTranz

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The Deck is a whole gen behind the PS5 and it can only run verified games reliably without getting into issues/tinkering. It's a niche product aimed at PC gamers who want a portable option.
Not sure what you mean by "whole gen behind" considering they use the exact same CPU and GPU architectures.

Sure, the Deck's a lot less powerful, but it also targets a much lower output resolution at 1280*800 vs 3840*2160 on the PS5. Processing power per rendered pixel is actually higher on the Deck, though not everything scales down with resolution.
 

Evilms

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The PS4 sold 63.4 million with :

-A console initially priced at $399.
-A slim model at $299.
-A PS4 pro already released at $399 only.
-A PSVR1 at 399$.
-No shortages.


The PS5 made 61.6 million with :

-A console sold at $399 and $499 at launch.
-Then a "Slim" that doesn't drop in price and sees its digital version increase to $449 (+$50 when it should be the opposite).
-A PS5 Pro not available yet.
-A PSVR2 at 549$.
-Significant shortage (during the covid period).


There's a gap of 1.8 million between the 2 consoles, but given the less favorable conditions, it's almost a miracle to see a PS5 always sticking to the PS4.
 
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SuperPotato

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Not sure what you mean by "whole gen behind" considering they use the exact same CPU and GPU architectures.

Sure, the Deck's a lot less powerful, but it also targets a much lower output resolution at 1280*800 vs 3840*2160 on the PS5. Processing power per rendered pixel is actually higher on the Deck, though not everything scales down with resolution.

It's more or less on par with a PS4. So a gen behind in pure performance.
 

SuperPotato

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Switch Deck will have future iterations that will be more powerful, this is not the only one, but was one example since most PS Studios PC ports are Steam Deck Vertified.

For the price of a SteamDeck (64GB) you can get a Digital PS5, at least here in Europe. For the price of the 512 GB model you can get the PS5 with a disc drive.

So, console gaming is still cheaper for what it offers. You get much more performance and games actually work reliably without having to do workarounds like installing Windows to play non varified games.
 

Plextorage

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did i lie in anything? Concord and Helldivers 2 won't require you to spend a single cent on PC to play on the same servers we console users pay to use, the same applies for Ghost Of Tsushima and its multiplayer mode, once GT7 gets ported, not only it'll have PSVR2 support but also won't require you to pay a subscription for its multiplayer mode, this makes PC a more desirable place to be, you save $80 every year on Online Play, Singleplayer games are coming cheaper on PC, with more quality and features and unlimited resolution and frame-rates, meaning you won't have to spend $10 to upgrade next gen version on the next console

Every damn time


People literally spending more time and more money on the PS ecosystem and people are still complaining about PC ports lol.
 

BillyZ

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The PS4 sold 63.4 million with :

-A console initially priced at $399.
-A slim model at $299.
-A PS4 pro already released at $399 only.
-A PSVR1 at 399$.
-No shortages.


The PS5 made 61.6 million with :

-A console sold at $399 and $499 at launch.
-Then a "Slim" that doesn't drop in price and sees its digital version increase to $449 (+$50 when it should be the opposite).
-A PS5 Pro not available yet.
-A PSVR2 at 549$.
-Significant shortage (during the covid period).


There's a gap of 1.8 million between the 2 consoles, but given the less favorable conditions, it's almost a miracle to see a PS5 always sticking to the PS4.
All good but Xbox Series doing even worse than Xbox One somehow is such a fail that there's no excuse for PS5 not to be ahead. So Sony fucked up.
 

SuperPotato

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All good but Xbox Series doing even worse than Xbox One somehow is such a fail that there's no excuse for PS5 not to be ahead. So Sony fucked up.

The issue with Xbox is the lack of marketing and presence. Prices and exclusives don't mean anything when 80% of the world doesn't even know that your product exists.

Playstation only needs a price drop.
 
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Yurinka

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will you have these same arguments and texts once they start porting older games to rival consoles like the Switch 2? cause it's definetly gonna happen
Not sure if you quoted the wrong post, because has nothing to do with what I posted.

I think they won't port old games to rival consoles. If Lego Horizon works well in general I think they'll do more Lego games using SIE IPs, and in particular if that game sells well enough on Switch they would release these potential future Lego games on Switch 2 as exception (like with the other non-Sony brand MLB), because being kids focused the demografics would fit well.

I think they won't port old games specially because Xbox is dying -so no big business to be made there- and because I think Switch 2 will start with record numbers but in the long term, at the end of the generation will have performed way worse than Switch because I think PS5/PS6 and PC handhelds -specially if Sony releases one, I think they will- will slowly eat its market share. Plus as happened in the recent generations, I think non-Nintendo publishers will continue making way more money on PS, PC or mobile than in Switch 2.

As themselves said, Sony's gaming business is focused on their console, because their main revenue source are the games and subs sold in their store, which right now is limited to their console. But in order to chase the extra revenue and profitability they need, they are expanding to mostly the gaming markets that are bigger than the PS one (PC and mobile) and outside gaming (movies, tv shows, theme parks).

But even if they would do it, I'd continue thinking what I posted in the other post because it's unrelated and the points would continue being valid.
 
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BillyZ

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The issue with Xbox is the lack of marketing and presence. Prices and exclusives don't mean anything when 80% of the world doesn't even know that your product exists.

Playstation only needs a price drop.
What I'm trying to say is people left Xbox but they didn't come to PlayStation. Why is that? For that group of people PC is particularly attractive, Xbox was already there and now PlayStation is too.
 
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Evilms

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All good but Xbox Series doing even worse than Xbox One somehow is such a fail that there's no excuse for PS5 not to be ahead. So Sony fucked up.





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581f4ca3dd0895e9548b46a3



How do you expect it to be ahead of the PS4 with that price in the middle of the generation?
 

Kokoloko

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I dont think anyone said PC ports will effect PS5 right away, maybe a bit.
Give till half way through PS6 gen and you’ll have more realistic timeframe to judge

The population is always growing and you’re gonna have new fans if you do a good job/ mind share etc. So PS is having new buys who have never bought a console before.

For Steam. Steam is gaining new fans too.
It will be gaining new users by:

1. Young new fans that would of been PC gamers anyway.

2. PC like Mobile will have random old heads/non gamers who use PC’s for work or other things, decide to buy a game for the first time and become gamers. (Quite rare Im guessing compared to the other 3 points)

3. Take potential news fans that could of gone to Nintendo or Playstation.

4. Or/and take current PS/Nintendo/Xbox fans

And Vice Versa for PS and Nintendo for points 1,3,4.

From the last 2 points, Steam is gonna gain fans, and will be taking fans away from Nintendo, Playstation, Xbox etc. And vice versa its normal competition, not everyone is a loyal fanboy like us lol.
We’ve all been there when growing up and choosing what platform we’re gonna buy or buy a pc etc. Some are grown into the platform with what there parents play. Some change.

I know PC and PS supporters of the PS ports say it makes no difference to Playstation.

But.
Is Steam not gonna gain new users? Are 100% of the new fans Steam gains in the next 10 years, people who would of never gone towards Playstation or Nintendo anyway? Thats pretty unrealistic. People have options and will choose depends on many factors.

If Nintendo put there games tomorrow on PC, not day 1. It will give potential fans a choice to go elsewhere.
Right now, like before alot of PC owners would also buy a PS and Nitnendo so they could play those games too.
This is what I had until the mid PS3 gen when I didnt upgrade my PC. I had my PC for PC games, PS3 for PS games, Xbox360 for 360 games. I didnt like the Wii but I had it in the corner lol.

2 points:

-Playstation is gonna sell games on PC and make money. How much, depends on the game. Some people will never have gone to console and the millions of current PC users are potential buys.

-Playstation putting there games on other platforms gives people options to go elsewhere. For potential new fans, and old fans. This is why Playstation didn't put there games on other Platforms for 4 generations and same with Sega. Nintendo still believes what Sony did.


Its too early to see which is gonna effect Playstation more. The potential money they make from 1st party games on PC, or the potential PSN sales both 1st (%) and 3rd party
 
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