Richard Leadbetter (Digital Foundry): Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable

[ethomaz]

Not good enough.. sorry.

Let's start with lighting. GI probe lookup tables for computing indirect lighting. Was this changed at the end of last gen to be better in any way? Did the developer get to the point of mastering the hardware such that they could use MORE GI probes or maybe even dynamic building of the GI data structure on-the-fly when the sun/moon move every second due to the earth's rotation?

You say that actual pictures of what it is showing on screen is not good enough to stay which game looks better? It is only way to do it.. picture or videos.
If you see the world in a Matrix way it is your issue.
The comparison between graphics is done based in what is showed on screen... which look better is based in what is showed on screen.

GTS (confirmed even by DF) looks better than DriveClub... now imagine if GTS was made in 30fps.
TLOU2 looks way better than Uncharted 4.
And The Order doesn't look better than late games I listed even The Order rendering at like 800p resolution... more taxing games at 1080p at end of the generation looks better.

 

[Deleted member 13]

You say that actual pictures of what it is showing on screen is not good enough to stay which game looks better? It is only way to do it.. picture or videos.

No because it's subjective opinion not based on facts. I could say whatever I want and people would have to except what I say as ground truth??

The comparison between graphics is done based in what is showed on screen... which look better is based in what is showed on screen.

That's why we have a big disconnect between each other. You want to declare what you think looks good to YOU as the ground truth instead of what I think is better.

 

[ethomaz]

I mean where that weird ideia that Uncharted 4 looks better than The Last of Us 2 is coming....

- Vegetation
- Characters models
- Environment
- Animation
- Visual Effects

Are all in another level in The Last of Us 2 compared with Uncharted 4... and the difference is not minor.

 

[ethomaz]

No because it's subjective opinion not based on facts. I could say whatever I want and people would have to except what I say as ground truth??

That's why we have a big disconnect between each other. You want to declare what you think looks good to YOU as the ground truth instead of what I think is better.

What you think is better has nothing to do with what looks better.
Nobody cares about the tech used to render the scene when talking about better graphics... what is better is what show on screen better no matter if you think the tech used is better or not.

There is no way anybody that played both TLOU2 and Uncharted 4 on PS4 will say the U4 looks better than TLOU2.

 

[Deleted member 13]

I mean where that weird ideia that Uncharted 4 looks better than The Last of Us 2 is coming....

- Vegetation
- Characters models
- En5v5ironment
- Animation
- Visual Effects

Are all in another level in The Last of Us 2 compared with Uncharted 4... and the difference is not minor.

It may not be.. but without proof of superior techniques and the mastery of the hardware, we can't make a good judgement call. You guys think R&C looks better than Plague and I definitely don't think so. If you guys gawk over UE5 demo back in the day and Plague looks like that, then I don't see how it doesn't look better other than the fact that it's not an exclusive to the PS.

 

[ethomaz]

It may not be.. but without proof of superior techniques and the mastery of the hardware, we can't make a good judgement call. You guys think R&C looks better than Plague and I definitely don't think so. If you guys gawk over UE5 demo back in the day and Plague looks like that, then I don't see how it doesn't look better other than the fact that it's not an exclusive to the PS.

Can't talk about Plague... it looks good in video but I didn't see it on screen.
I think R&C is the most close a game reached to Pixar films... and that tells a lot about it graphical look.

 

[Deleted member 13]

What you think is better has nothing to do with what looks better.
Nobody cares about the tech used to render the scene when talking about better graphics...

Thats' BS. Do you know how ape-shit you guys went when the UE5 demo was released on the PS5-ONLY??? It was the very fact of using Nanite and Lumen (a new technology) that made the demo look so cool. Now that the demo was finally released on the PC and XSX, it's no longer a good tech-showcase??

what is better is what show on screen better no matter if you think the tech used is better or not.

YOU can't dictate that to everyone. You can't force everyone to believe your observation is correct while others isn't.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Can't talk about Plague... it looks good in video but I didn't see it on screen.
I think R&C is the most close a game reached to Pixar films... and that tells a lot about it graphical look.

But it's not because of it's technology is my point.

 

[ethomaz]

But it's not because of it's technology is my point.

So a game doesn't look good because the tech used is not what you think is better?
That even makes sense?
The game looks good because it looks good.

 

[peter42O]

30fps doesn't equate to bad gameplay though imo. I understand others might feel differently. And better looking games is always wanted

It does once you're used to 60fps. Playing Gotham just wasn't smooth, fluid or responsive. I think it also depends on the type of game. Requiem at 40fps with VRR on my LG CX OLED plays and feels better but it's a slow paced stealth oriented game with some chase/action scenes where as Gotham, there's a lot of combat and it needs that fluidity that it's simply lacking.

Last generation, games at 30fps like HZD or GOW and others felt great because the combat/gameplay itself was great. A game like Gotham where it's not great just becomes worse at 30fps where as with 60fps, it would help out the game to feel better to play.

Sure, better looking games are welcome but in all honesty, the only game this generation that I could say I was disappointed in regards to visuals was Halo Infinite but the combat/gameplay at 60fps made up for it and is an exchange I will always take regardless of the game.

I just wish the developers and publishers would concentrate on the performance aspects of their games and at the very least, just give me the option for 60fps even if it's at 1080p since im not a resolution or visuals guy.

 

[Satoru]

But they are like PCs. Even though they are closed systems, they still have hardware that any PC developer can pick up and start developing on. Last gen's PS4 and the last games (i.e. TLOU 2, UC4, etc.) of that gen didn't look significantly better or run faster than the earlier games (i.e. The Order, DriveClub, Killzone, etc..).

This is wrong on so many levels. First you're comparing games that can't be compared. Horizon Forbidden West on the PS4 looks like a decent im

There is no way that any game at the end of last gen looks significantly better than earlier gen games. And I can quantify it with exactly the graphics techniques used.

So, if you have a game that looks like an early ps2 title but uses RTGI, it will somehow look better than than, say Ryse Son of Rome? Common. That's absolute bullshit. If we're talking technical dick measuring, sure, but that's not what graphics are all about. "oh this game has beautiful PBR shaders, next gen shit" and then has 240p textures.

 

[Deleted member 13]

This is wrong on so many levels. First you're comparing games that can't be compared. Horizon Forbidden West on the PS4 looks like a decent im



So, if you have a game that looks like an early ps2 title but uses RTGI, it will somehow look better than than, say Ryse Son of Rome? Common. That's absolute bullshit. If we're talking technical dick measuring, sure, but that's not what graphics are all about. "oh this game has beautiful PBR shaders, next gen shit" and then has 240p textures.

Basically you want to leave judging games' graphics open to suggestion. Then we can never have this conversation then.

Likewise your comment, "the game looks better than anything out there but doesn't depend on the tech used. Oh BTW, UE5 demo was the next coming of God before it was released to other platforms but now Nanite isn't so impressive".

 

[Satoru]

Likewise your comment, "the game looks better than anything out there but doesn't depend on the tech used. Oh BTW, UE5 demo was the next coming of God before it was released to other platforms but now Nanite isn't so impressive".

Did I say anything about the UE5 demo, or are we in whataboutism territory now?

 

[ethomaz]

UE5 Demo looks great and next-gen to me... it was really impressive.
I think there will be games on consoles doing better than it at late in the generation... I mean in 30fps.

 

[Oogabooga]

Maybe because fps is overrated af and most people care more about the visuals!! after all you are playing on a 500$ console, don't expect miracles.

 

[DynamiteCop]

Maybe because fps is overrated af and most people care more about the visuals!! after all you are playing on a 500$ console, don't expect miracles.

Yeah except this whole generation was built up as a revolution for framerate given the CPU's, and a course correction from last gen which was GPU lopsided...

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe because fps is overrated af and most people care more about the visuals!! after all you are playing on a 500$ console, don't expect miracles.

I read your comment like something the KojimaHateMiyazaki should say... what happened with him? I miss him.
And agree with you.

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah except this whole generation was built up as a revolution for framerate given the CPU's, and a course correction from last gen which was GPU lopsided...

It was build as that or some gamers set over expectations?

 

[Satoru]

"late ps4 games don't look better than early ps4 games"

Let me present you... Horizon Forbidden West.

Compare to Zero Dawn, also on PS4

Improvements across the board

 

[Satoru]

On last gen vs current gen

One ran at 30fps 1080p, the other ran at 4k 30fps. Even if you compare the performance RT mode at 60fps with last gen at 60fps, the improvements are noticeable across the board.