Sony now own 14.1% of From Software (May be buying more)

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sony should've bought FROM after the original Demons Souls, now they're too big and too expensive I think!

Nah, From is easily in Sony's pricing range to buy, even now. Kadokawa themselves aren't even valuated at $2 billion USD IIRC, so From is valued at much less than that.

Sure, it could change, but they'd need a series of games performing at Elden Ring's level sales-wise in order to massively push up their and Kadokawa's market valuation. That's something which would take at least five years, maybe up to ten, by which point if Sony wanted to buy them (if Kadokawa were willing to sell them...or even offer themselves for purchase), they'd of already had been acquired them and a reasonable price.

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I don't disagree with the points you make, I just don't think they automatically rule-out my opinion that Sony has the ability to rehab TR and then use it better in a wide range of initiatives. That it didnt happen I still consider a mistep.

Well, anything can still happen when it comes to Tomb Raider tbh. Embracer own the IP now but Sony could buy it from them if things don't work out, or just license out the IP to do their own game with it, even a mashup between it and Uncharted.

However, I think Sony ultimately made a good decision because if they have no studios that are currently interested in doing a Tomb Raider game, they'd of had to buy Crystal Dynamics, and I think Cory Barlog's own accounts about the studio from his time there after he joined Sony Santa Monica, might've been kept in mind when the opportunity to buy them came up.

That combined with the general downward slope of the TR series since 2013, and the failure of Avengers game, it's very likely Sony would've been forced to buy Crystal Dynamics if they wanted the Tomb Raider IP and that just wasn't worth it to them.

 

[Yobo]

Buying Crystal Dynamics with Square became untenable as soon as they struck up a deal to work on an MS first party game

 

[Dabaus]

Buying Crystal Dynamics with Square became untenable as soon as they struck up a deal to work on an MS first party game

What are you trying tp say?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Well there is also the possibility Sony buys more FS shares over time, but that would come down to if Kadokawa wants to make more shares sellable. And realistically, there's a very short list of companies able and willing to go into a bidding war for the rest of From Software. The only ones I can think of are Sony, Tencent, NetEase and Embracer Group.

But I don't think Embracer Group would be one to make the buy because they don't really go after companies with games the size of an Elden Ring. Tencent's purchases shares are squarely focused on mobile and some anime, so I'm not sure what buying the rest of FromSoft does for their business aims. That probably really just leaves Sony and NetEase, but all around it's kind of worthless to speculate who "buys" FromSoft because I doubt Kadokawa wants to sell them at all. Why do so, when they're printing money?

Sure, all of this is true.. and kind of beside my point.

My point is Sony doesn't control anything having to do with From, because of a 14% investment. If From didn't have a majority owner, then 14% would be enough to put Sony on the board of directors most likely, and then they'd have a vote on things. But From DOES have a majority owner, so as long as that is true... it's really just an investment.

Things can change, Sony can gain some control over From, but they don't have that right now.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sure, all of this is true.. and kind of beside my point.

My point is Sony doesn't control anything having to do with From, because of a 14% investment. If From didn't have a majority owner, then 14% would be enough to put Sony on the board of directors most likely, and then they'd have a vote on things. But From DOES have a majority owner, so as long as that is true... it's really just an investment.

Things can change, Sony can gain some control over From, but they don't have that right now.

Generally agree, this buy-in isn't going to suddenly get them privileges they didn't have before. The investment might make it more likely they get another From exclusive or two, but they'd have to buy that (generally through co-funding and marketing) like they did with Bloodborne. The 14% doesn't suddenly pay the costs they'd have to pay to secure an exclusive from them, that's true.

So yeah, nothing really changes in that way. It just increases the possibility Sony does go for an exclusive with From at some point in the future. They'd just have to pay whatever they need to get that done, completely aside the 14% investment.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Generally agree, this buy-in isn't going to suddenly get them privileges they didn't have before. The investment might make it more likely they get another From exclusive or two, but they'd have to buy that (generally through co-funding and marketing) like they did with Bloodborne. The 14% doesn't suddenly pay the costs they'd have to pay to secure an exclusive from them, that's true.

So yeah, nothing really changes in that way. It just increases the possibility Sony does go for an exclusive with From at some point in the future. They'd just have to pay whatever they need to get that done, completely aside the 14% investment.

The real PS benefit of this investment is that no From game will skip PlayStation. Xbox/Nintendo won't be able to secure an exclusive.

 

[Dabaus]

The real PS benefit of this investment is that no From game will skip PlayStation. Xbox/Nintendo won't be able to secure an exclusive.

This. But also look at what Nintendo paid for Munster hunter ride exclusivity, I think it was 8 million dollars. Sony allegedly paid 5 million for the silent hill 2 remake. If exclusive deal are that cheap when your in a good market position, then I think 124 million of whatever Sony actually have to fromsoft can go a long ways, in my opinion.

 

[Yurinka]

This. But also look at what Nintendo paid for Munster hunter ride exclusivity, I think it was 8 million dollars. Sony allegedly paid 5 million for the silent hill 2 remake. If exclusive deal are that cheap when your in a good market position, then I think 124 million of whatever Sony actually have to fromsoft can go a long ways, in my opinion.

These numbers are fake. As reference, Sony paid 5M for the marketing of RE Village and a few extras like the demo, bundles or VR version. MH sells more than RE, so MH Rise's exclusivity must be more expensive. Capcom would have earned way more money making MH World 2 instead of a Switch only Rise.

Silent Hill is a dead IP that always sold way less than RE, so to get a remake they should have paid way less than the RE Village, in case SH2 remake exists and assuming Sony really paid something for it.

Sony made an investment in a company called FromSoft, which means Sony will earn dividends (get a part of the profits made by FromSoft). It's a different business unrelated to exclusives or marketing deals. Owning a 14% with another investor who owns more and the owner who has way over half of the company means Sony can't demand exclusives or anything to FromSoft. They simply invested on them to get money, and who knows if to block Tencent from buying more, or as a first step to buy more in the future and who knows if even the full studio depending on Kadokawa's plans.

 

[ksdixon]

A Vita with L2 and R2 would also sell a shit because their main issue wasn't that: it was the lack of support of appealing big games and pricing of stuff like the needed external storage. So even if you (or me) want another Sony portable console they won't make it because it would be an unprofitable money sink for them and the publishers.

But... A Vita with L2/R2 at the very least - let's say also ckickable LS/RS for the hell of it as we're discussing a PSP handheld and not a PS/Xperia phone or phone holding shell - immediately would have become infinitely more useful in terms of playing console games, either from the native PStore on PSVita2 or when Remote Playing PS3/PS4 at the time from around the house etc. You have all the needed buttons. I know the other factors like proprietary memory, pricing all contributed/snowballed, but by God the poor little bastard wasn't up to task physically hardware-wise to even start with.

I agree Switch has evolved the portable console and home console seperate games libraries idea, but I do think if Sony are gonna keep PS4 around with cross gen games, embrace crossplay in general, I think it needs some kind of PS4 level Portable, to play games locally or remote play a PS5 if needed.

I can want the best console experience on TV most of the time, but also the flexibility of a portable companion device right? It'd already play whatever's playable on ps4, but can still remote play the ps5 from downstairs if I'm in bath or on toilet or away from house etc. A PSP successor would hopefully be similar size comfort levels and of similar stylish look to a Vita, not things I would personally claim for the Switch or Steam Deck.

But instead, we're getting phone-cooling-fans which stream gameplay, and you're still touching the damn phone screen.

I don't want streaming and remote play specifically from my phone, killing the battery, overheating the phone, connection spazzing out if something forces focus on phone screen etc.

It seems Sony are exclusively equating portable gaming as mobile efforts, but I think that leaves out portable's own significance. Wanting better quality just in portable factor, trumps underpowered android gaming tablets, and it's a cleaner way than stuffing a windows 10 pc inside a Vita shell, and then hook into pc ports, emulation, streaming and remote play. Things should be feeding back into the console's ecosystem, ya know?

 

[ksdixon]

More on topic about FROM.

Although TC own more of FROM than Sony, Sony have prior investment into parent company KDKWA, right? So in terms of potentially Sony wanting an exclusive FROM game, but TC want extra money from selling to all platforms, Sony has more say than may first appear, no?

In light of more recent TC cheek turns, how does that shape the outlook of Sony, Epic and TC almost being investment buddies as opposed to TC out-moneying Sony to the post (having more investment shares than Sony in FROM/EPIC)?

 

[Gods&Monsters]

More on topic about FROM.

Although TC own more of FROM than Sony, Sony have prior investment into parent company KDKWA, right? So in terms of potentially Sony wanting an exclusive FROM game, but TC want extra money from selling to all platforms, Sony has more say than may first appear, no?

In light of more recent TC cheek turns, how does that shape the outlook of Sony, Epic and TC almost being investment buddies as opposed to TC out-moneying Sony to the post (having more investment shares than Sony in FROM/EPIC)?

Tencent also owns Kadokawa, more than Sony on both sides.

Sony is very low on both. I don't know why they are always dumb with FROM.

 

[ksdixon]

Tencent also owns Kadokawa, more than Sony on both sides.

Sony is very low on both. I don't know why they are always dumb with FROM.

Oh ffs I didn't know that lol.
C'mon Sony, what are you doing lad?

In that case, let's 'hope' there's some budding up, I don't see much benefit in investing less-than someone else, and doing timed exclusive deals for games by companies that get bought by others. Sony just seems to be thinking that'll work out somehow.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

But... A Vita with L2/R2 at the very least - let's say also ckickable LS/RS for the hell of it as we're discussing a PSP handheld and not a PS/Xperia phone or phone holding shell - immediately would have become infinitely more useful in terms of playing console games, either from the native PStore on PSVita2 or when Remote Playing PS3/PS4 at the time from around the house etc. You have all the needed buttons. I know the other factors like proprietary memory, pricing all contributed/snowballed, but by God the poor little bastard wasn't up to task physically hardware-wise to even start with.

I agree Switch has evolved the portable console and home console seperate games libraries idea, but I do think if Sony are gonna keep PS4 around with cross gen games, embrace crossplay in general, I think it needs some kind of PS4 level Portable, to play games locally or remote play a PS5 if needed.

I can want the best console experience on TV most of the time, but also the flexibility of a portable companion device right? It'd already play whatever's playable on ps4, but can still remote play the ps5 from downstairs if I'm in bath or on toilet or away from house etc. A PSP successor would hopefully be similar size comfort levels and of similar stylish look to a Vita, not things I would personally claim for the Switch or Steam Deck.

But instead, we're getting phone-cooling-fans which stream gameplay, and you're still touching the damn phone screen.

I don't want streaming and remote play specifically from my phone, killing the battery, overheating the phone, connection spazzing out if something forces focus on phone screen etc.

It seems Sony are exclusively equating portable gaming as mobile efforts, but I think that leaves out portable's own significance. Wanting better quality just in portable factor, trumps underpowered android gaming tablets, and it's a cleaner way than stuffing a windows 10 pc inside a Vita shell, and then hook into pc ports, emulation, streaming and remote play. Things should be feeding back into the console's ecosystem, ya know?

Best hope is Sony makes a beefier fit-to-form smartphone controller dock with haptic feedback triggers and analog sticks that can work with their modern Xperia phones, and position that as a portable gaming alternative that can do Remote Play with PS4 & PS5 systems, can probably be subsidized through carriers with sub plans, stream PS1/2/3 games and tie some form of PS+ to the mobile platform.

A full-on dedicated handheld/portable PlayStation system is probably not going to happen. I gave up on that idea a while ago, time to join us brother

Tencent also owns Kadokawa, more than Sony on both sides.

Sony is very low on both. I don't know why they are always dumb with FROM.

Could just be down to timing of when shares were buyable and what amount were up for sale by the parent company.