Sony plans include PC Launcher, Cross-Buy, Cross-Save/Progression with PC, PS Plus on Fire Stick, Roku and Smart TVs

[Neversummer]

it doesn't matter if they don't sell more than 120 - 150M consoles, every generation they increase their profits because the amount spent per user also increases, this is the sustainable model here, not subscriptions, while MS is bleeding money since 2017 with the hope GamePass will become the norm, PS5 is the most profitable console Sony ever had, you cannot use analogies to Netflix and other subscription services because it's been more than proven that subscriptions are not and will not become the norm for videogames, the main competitor is dropping games DAY ONE on the service and its subscribers on both Console, PC, Mobile, Smart TVs, Tablets, Meta Quests Headsets and now even FireStick devices are nowhere near half of the amount of consoles Sony sold in the last 4 years, you can't compare a subscription service of movies of 2 hours and TV Shows of 1 hour per episode with videogames that are 50 - 100h to complete, for the vast majority of people, it's better to just buy the game and play it slowly

and about your other quotes around Steam, no, Sony will not compete with Steam, they won't have exclusives to their launcher, they won't have nothing but a Launcher to play their games and subscribe to PS Plus and play games natively on your PC, the only difference is that now you'll be obligated to have PSN account and use this launcher when you press "play" on your Steam library, that's all, if they wanted to compete with Steam, they would never put their games there in the first place, they would've made a launcher since 2020 when they dropped Horizon Zero Dawn on PC

the hard reality here is that Sony should be aiming to mirror the Nintendo model, cause that is the only model that would work for Sony, Nintendo is sitting on cash, they're not even worried about Cloud Gaming or Subscription Services, all their subscription offer is older games and their own franchises, they make more profits than PlayStation, the model should be grow your first party franchises with Playstation Productions, make them more popular (Mario Movie, example, TLOU TV Show), make people come to your box instead of PC, buy your $70 games, buy third party stuff from your storefront, it may seem antiquated for you, but this is the only model that works and has worked for the past 30 years, it's the only model that's sustainable for AAA games, once you dillude and make your core product undesirable like Microsoft made, there is no turning back, and Sony is more and more turning PlayStation into a Service instead of a Platform, if shit hits the fan and this model proves to be a failure like everything has been indicating, they won't be able to recover from their own mistakes of following big tech

you mentioned Apple, you know what Apple loves to make? they frustrate their competitors and do stuff their way, they'll never sell iOS or MacOS, you have to come to their products if you want the Apple experience, and they made MS quit a lot of products like Zune, Surface, Windows Phone, because they don't see what their competitors are doing, they focus on what they do the best and what works best for them, Sony is doing the opposite of that, they're following every step MS is, even tho they're seeing this model doesn't work even with Day One releases and expansions Beyond the Console.

I never understood the “there’s a limit” to a certain business model when any business has a “limit”. Businesses don’t have unlimited growth.

Xbox killed there 80 million console platform & now is gonna sell low 30 million after 6 years (a generation for Xbox) technically Xbox has a wider reach of audience then PS & Nintendo yet Xbox games sell the least out of the 3 & Xbox games are the least played compared to PS & Nintendo. You would have to take games MS itself didn’t created Minecraft & COD to get a game that is played more & sold more then PS & Nintendo.

Totally agree w the statement regarding Apple ecosystem. People underestimate the control & power of having a platform that comes from a piece of hardware & storefront that’s under that same Apple hardware ecosystem. MS has to bend there knees & find alternative just so they can full fill there business & expansion in cloud, subscription, gaming etc. same is happening w Xbox & Steam where Steam won’t accept Xbox/MS subscription Gamepass on Steam.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Company by Market Cap

Microsoft - 3.38T
Apple - 3.28T
Nvidia - 3.19T
Google - 2.27T
Amazon - 2.02T
Meta - 1.31T

Tencent - 447B
Samsung - 391B
Netflix - 291.12B
Disney - 185.9B

Sony - 105.1B
Nintendo - 62.2B


Anyone who thinks that Sony can afford to limit themselves to console is beyond delusional. Nintendo has operated from pure operating income for decades, and even they're only worth 62B. At best Sony could maybe match them and that would probably bring their market cap to say 125-140B. They're still not big enough to compete with big tech. There is no coincidence that Sony and Nintendo are both sub 150 billion. Even if you combined Sony and Nintendo's market caps they would still be sub 200B...

If you look at every company above them, they branched out. Sony could probably be a trillion dollar company if they were historically more ambitious and open and adapted to the market around them rather than being reactive.

Within the next 10-15 years the companies above Sony are going to buy every major gaming publisher out there and Sony's not going to have any significant 3rd party royalty revenue and their console sales will diminish as a result.

Sony desperately needs size and girth and it needs to add it quickly.

Disney bought Marvel in December 31st 2009. At the time their market cap was closer to 62 billion. They've tripled that in just over a decade by branching out.

Once Big Tech comes after gaming like they've come after media, it'll be too late for Sony to respond. And it has already started with Microsoft buying Zenimax and Activision. Amazon bought MGM for 8.5 billion two years ago, and people are sure they won't buy T2? Apple could easily buy EA if they beat the government's antitrust lawsuit.

People arguing against Sony's current course in favor of some fantasy past are beyond delusional.

 

[mibu no ookami]

They have been “experimenting” for what, six or seven years at this point? Now they have put their games on Steam which means when they release their own launcher they will go through another shit storm from the rabid Steam fans and streamers. If they want to release their own store front, their own app, it better come feature complete ready to compete otherwise just another clown shoes moment by Sony. It should’ve been ready yesterday considering PC is growing fast in Japan, they are looking like fools if this their end goal and they are taking so long.

These things cost money and take time to develop.

Sony first put Horizon Zero Dawn on PC in August of 2020. They put Day's Gone on PC on May 18th 2021. I think these experiences proved to Sony they needed outside help. They bought Nixxes in May 2021 after a successful release of Spider-Man Remastered for PC in November of 2020.

It would take a major team a very long time to put together a PC launcher and they've probably had at best a small team of engineers working on that.

Meanwhile Sony was probably looking at GOG and EGS for lessons learned. There are technical hurdles to overcome, but also publishing agreements to obtain. It would probably take at least a year and a half to two years to develop. Sony's a bit slower than most tech companies though.

 

[mibu no ookami]

I never understood the “there’s a limit” to a certain business model when any business has a “limit”. Businesses don’t have unlimited growth.

Businesses don't have unlimited growth but some businesses are more limited than others. Streaming is SO much bigger than Netflix's mail order business because it's instant and doesn't require someone owning a physical disc player that they have to update with the release of every new medium. Netflix was able to jump from HD to 4K seamlessly for example. It was easy enough to transition people to smart streaming devices and then TVs became smart TVs.

Sony's console business is limited by the TAM of the console market and even including Nintendo, is entirely too small to compete with Big Tech.

Xbox killed there 80 million console platform & now is gonna sell low 30 million after 6 years (a generation for Xbox) technically Xbox has a wider reach of audience then PS & Nintendo yet Xbox games sell the least out of the 3 & Xbox games are the least played compared to PS & Nintendo. You would have to take games MS itself didn’t created Minecraft & COD to get a game that is played more & sold more then PS & Nintendo.

Their not there.

A wider reach? How so?

Than not then.

create not created.

Totally agree w the statement regarding Apple ecosystem. People underestimate the control & power of having a platform that comes from a piece of hardware & storefront that’s under that same Apple hardware ecosystem. MS has to bend there knees & find alternative just so they can full fill there business & expansion in cloud, subscription, gaming etc. same is happening w Xbox & Steam where Steam won’t accept Xbox/MS subscription Gamepass on Steam.

Again, Apple produces the iPod and allowed iTunes to work on MacOS and Windows. There were probably more Windows users using iTunes than MacOS users. It's a major reason why the iPod was so successful by not limiting it to just MacOS. If the iPod was not so successful, the iPhone would not have jumped in with as much market share as it did. If the iPhone hadn't been as successful as it was, the airpod would not have become the standard that it is.

Similarly, Apple puts Apple TV+ on essentially every device and the same with Apple Music.

They create a hardware ecosystem, but they put many of their services and subscriptions on other devices.

Google put Google Maps on Android AND iOS. If they restricted Google Maps from iOS, it would have greatly hampered it's adoption.

You have to understand what should and shouldn't be exclusive/proprietary.

Sony was missing out on billions of dollars by ignoring PC and Mobile. It's something they can't afford to do in an environment where big tech can outspend them.

 

[Jim Ryan]

All those pc ports and so little gain for Sony...I think their investors and potential investors would much prefer to see higher ps5 sales than a few pc ports.

 

[mibu no ookami]

All those pc ports and so little gain for Sony...I think their investors and potential investors would much prefer to see higher ps5 sales than a few pc ports.

Sigh... this is really misleading.

It's easier to grow at a larger percentage when you're smaller. This also looks at a very small sample of time, which you shouldn't do with stocks. Is a company up big this year because it was down big last year? The context matters.

Also not sure where he is getting said figures, they don't seem to add up with what is publicly available.

Also Sony's strategy isn't just PC Ports, that's near term. Long term is a PC launcher, which would definitely boost their stock, especially if they're able to increase PS+ subscriptions as a result.

 

[mibu no ookami]

SAN FRANCISCO—October 16, 2003—Apple® today launched the second generation of its revolutionary iTunes® Music Store for both Mac® and Windows users. The new iTunes Music Store offers Windows users the same online music store that Mac users love—with the same music catalog, the same personal use rights and the same 99 cents-per-song pricing.

Since its launch six months ago, music fans have purchased and downloaded more than 13 million songs from the iTunes Music Store, making it the number one download music service in the world. With music from all five major music companies and over 200 independent music labels, the iTunes Music Store catalog is growing every day and will offer more than 400,000 songs by the end of October.

“The iTunes Music Store has revolutionized the way people legally buy music online, and now it’s available to tens of millions more music lovers with iTunes for Windows,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “While our competitors haven't even come close to matching our first generation, we’re already releasing the second generation of the iTunes Music Store for Mac and Windows.”

Apple offers the unbeatable combination of the award-winning iTunes digital jukebox software, the pioneering iTunes Music Store and the market-leading iPod™ digital music player, providing music lovers with a seamless experience for buying, managing and listening to their digital music collections anywhere. Windows iPod users can now use their iPod with the award-winning iTunes digital jukebox software and enjoy the best digital music experience on any platform. iTunes for Windows includes all the same great features that made it the best digital jukebox software for the Mac—a free download with no hidden charges for extra features, MP3 and pristine quality AAC encoding from audio CDs, Smart Playlists, over 250 free Internet radio stations, and the ability to burn custom playlists to CDs and MP3 CDs, burn content to DVDs to back-up an entire music collection and share music between computers via Rendezvous™ over any network, cross-platform.

Apple today also announced an online music alliance with America Online to provide instant, one-click registration to the iTunes Music Store for AOL’s more than 25 million U.S. members starting later this quarter. America Online will integrate links to iTunes artists, albums and songs throughout its leading music site, AOL Music, which will give AOL members the option to link directly to the specific iTunes Music Store page to preview and buy music as they browse and read music news and reviews. Apple will offer selections of AOL’s popular, original content such as Sessions@AOL and BroadBAND Rocks! through the iTunes Music Store.

The new iTunes Music Store features exclusive tracks from more than 60 artists, including new exclusive tracks announced today from Black Eyed Peas, Mary J. Blige, Coldplay, The Eagles, The Grateful Dead, Ben Harper, Yo-Yo Ma, Sarah McLachlan, R.E.M., The Rolling Stones, Sting and Luther Vandross. The iTunes Music Store also debuted today a new Celebrity Playlist feature with personal playlists created by several popular featured artists including Michelle Branch, Dave Brubeck, Billy Corgan, Counting Crows, Sheryl Crow, Missy Elliott, Ben Folds, Herbie Hancock, Jack Johnson, Kenna, Wynton Marsalis, Moby, Mark Ronson, Seal, Sting and Michael Stipe. In addition, the new iTunes Music Store features album reviews, artist biographies and essentials lists of must-have albums for artists.

The new iTunes Music Store offers another industry first—Apple’s innovative and patent-pending online “Allowance” feature which allows parents to automatically deposit funds into their kids’ iTunes Music Store account every month. This is the first time that parents can provide an alternative to illegal file sharing to their children. The new iTunes Music Store also offers online gift certificates that can be sent to friends and family via e-mail to give the gift of music to anyone.

In another pioneering move, the new iTunes Music Store now offers more than 5,000 audiobooks which can be purchased with one click and listened to on any Mac or Windows computer as well as on iPods. iTunes is the only digital jukebox that allows users to seamlessly purchase audiobooks in the same easy way that they purchase music. iTunes audiobooks are encoded with superior audio quality and feature New York Times bestsellers and popular public radio programs from NPR and PRI. In addition, the iTunes Music Store offers exclusive content not found digitally anywhere else, including “Whipping Mek,” an original story by Brian Herbert and bestselling novelist Kevin J. Anderson that bridges the Legends of Dune trilogy novels “The Butlerian Jihad” and “The Machine Crusade.”

The iTunes Music Store continues to offer Apple’s legendary ease of use, making it the easiest way to discover, purchase and download music online for both Mac and Windows. Users can easily search the entire music store to instantly locate any song by title, artist or album, or browse the entire collection of songs by genre, artist and album. Users can listen to free 30-second previews of any song in the store, then purchase and download their favorite songs or complete albums in pristine digital quality. Songs can be burned at no extra cost onto an unlimited number of CDs for personal use, played on up to any combination of three Mac or Windows computers, and listened to on an unlimited number of iPods.

 

[Summer Nightmares]

The fact that both Steam and Playstation are having mid year sales right now but The Last of Us Part I is only on sale on PC while being full price (and 10 dollars more expensive) on their own platform is wild to me.

 

[mibu no ookami]

The fact that both Steam and Playstation are having mid year sales right now but The Last of Us Part I is only on sale on PC while being full price (and 10 dollars more expensive) on their own platform is wild to me.

It was just on sale on the PS Store in May... it was 40 dollars. I'm convinced people will find any reason to get their panties in a bunch.

 

[Jim Ryan]

The fact that both Steam and Playstation are having mid year sales right now but The Last of Us Part I is only on sale on PC while being full price (and 10 dollars more expensive) on their own platform is wild to me.

Yup and when it was on sale on PSN, it was a really underwhelming discount.

I think all sales on PSN really don't compare to the PS4 days. They used to be far more generous and competitive.

 

[Summer Nightmares]

It was just on sale on the PS Store in May... it was 40 dollars. I'm convinced people will find any reason to get their panties in a bunch.

If you are going to sell your games on Steam at least you should have the same discount at the same time so people that have both a PC and a Playstation can choose and not be stuck with buying the game cheaper on the platform you don't own. Its common sense.

Also, may was almost two months ago.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Yup and when it was on sale on PSN, it was a really underwhelming discount.

I think all sales on PSN really don't compare to the PS4 days. They used to be far more generous and competitive.

It went from 70 to 40 on PSN. This is a 43% discount.

On Steam it went from 60 to 40... which is a 33% discount...

You guys are making stuff up at this point.

 

[mibu no ookami]

If you are going to sell your games on Steam at least you should have the same discount at the same time so people that have both a PC and a Playstation can choose and not be stuck with buying the game cheaper on the platform you don't own. Its common sense.

Also, may was almost two months ago.

This is the silliest thing I've ever heard.

You just created a scenario that said someone has both platforms, but then said they don't have one platform.

It was on sale as recently as June 7th, which was 3 weeks ago...

This is one of the most baffling arguments I've ever seen here and that is saying something, especially over a game that has been out for nearly two years, than many said served no purpose to begin with and has already been discounted 11 times since it released...

 

[Jim Ryan]

It went from 70 to 40 on PSN. This is a 43% discount.

On Steam it went from 60 to 40... which is a 33% discount...

You guys are making stuff up at this point.

It was over 50 in Europe as far as I remember.

Games here are 80 normally.

 

[mibu no ookami]

It was over 50 in Europe as far as I remember.

Games here are 80 normally.

And it is still only discounted 33% in Europe on steam and 37.5% on PSN...

 

[Hezekiah]

PC launcher is a must to have… essential for a PlayStation ecosystem on PC.

No more PS games on Steam.

I can see why they're going it, but it's going to be a tough sell because PC gamers are very attached to Steam.

I think they should sell games on both, and cross-save progression is a must.

 

[Orangee]

Cross buy? With PC? That would ruin the whole point of going PC...

...Or maybe I was right from the start, and it was never about sales, but about PSN engament.

 

[Hezekiah]

I can't blame Sony for looking beyond just consoles. But people really talking about Steamdeck. Hasn't the original sold about 3m units?

As for Switch 2 - Nintendo games will continue to sell well but it will continue to be the worst place to play third-party games (and will be skipped entirely for some games), - low res, basic upscaling, and 30fps. Horrible when compared to PS5 and PS5 Pro.

As for PC, well the 4090 is £1600, and the 4070 £800. Current estimates suggest the 5090 will be £1800+. For people who want to play AAA games it won't be the no.1 choice for many people.

Best to continue to invest in cloud streaming for the suckers who want to pay for it.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Cross buy? With PC? That would ruin the whole point of going PC...

...Or maybe I was right from the start, and it was never about sales, but about PSN engament.

I can't imagine cross buy, but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't even think there will be cross-buy necessarily for the handheld, especially if the handheld is sold at a loss.

 

[Nhomnhom]

All those pc ports and so little gain for Sony...I think their investors and potential investors would much prefer to see higher ps5 sales than a few pc ports.

PC just exposes them to a lot of problems they didn't have to deal before with very little benefit.

A focused and profitable PlayStation business is a lot more attractive to investors and if their console business dies on day than they can cross that third party bridge in due time.

Sony preemptively started to pivot away from PlayStation.