Sony shot themselves in the foot with PC!

ksdixon

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You're completely discrediting yourself by bringing up the dedicated PS handheld again, and it undermines all your other points. People don't want PC games, but they do want handheld games? OK, well PC is the only way to play them handheld, so I guess people actually DO want them.

They want the delivery method of portable acces to their PS console games/saves/friends etc. Not to rebuy the games again etc. And they want for that product to equally not be an ill equipped remote play only controller, or a handheld pc that could do a lot more than just remote/stream/play games cause it's a full pc and costs accordingly. Sony can split the difference cost wise and become entrenched now, before Deck/NSW2/other upgraded innard ones refresh.

There will NEVER be another dedicated Playstation handheld, and it would be an incredibly stupid blunder for PS to try it. You say they should "nut up", but to make a PSP3 would be kicking themselves in the nuts.
"PS4P", as I call it, foregoing the Vita splitting game library discussion. I say that because PS4 is lowest common denominator for PS ecosystem. That's what I mean. The Portal works within PS ecosystem, but has no local storage or local playing of games, and other drawbacks compared to a PS4P.

I like how people crow about Portal selling well, yet its the first time a Portable PS system has all the required buttons for (remote playing) playing the "big boy console games", which expect those buttons to be there. Could have had those buttons on like 2014 or whatever, on the first revision Vita.
 
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flaccidsnake

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PS4P is an even worse idea than PSP3. Let's just live in the cross-gen window forever! Playstation games on PC facilitate bigger AAA games. The PS4 portable idea keeps Playstation stuck in the mud, tempting 3rd parties to stay compatible with 2013 hardware. It also plays into Nintendo's strategy of holding games back 2 generations, which is a scourge.
 
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ksdixon

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PS4P is an even worse idea than PSP3. Let's just live in the cross-gen window forever! Playstation games on PC facilitate bigger AAA games. The PS4 portable idea keeps Playstation stuck in the mud, tempting 3rd parties to stay compatible with 2013 hardware. It also plays into Nintendo's strategy of holding games back 2 generations, which is a scourge.
We do still live in the cross-gen era. Weather that's Switch, Series S, Potatoe PC's, or cross gen PS4 releases. No one's really running with the idea of coding to the PS5 metal.

Multiplatform games/Sony putting their 1P on PC is in some form or fashion taking time or focus or development resources away from the teams. It's not just magical scaling for PC and done.

PS4 cross gen is the least of Sony's issues. But at least if they has a PS4P to take advantage of what they and 3P are already still doing by releasing PS4 games, it'd all be going into Sony's ecosystem.
 
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rofif

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Yeah... while it's good to have games on pc too, the reality is that:
-This weakens the PS console brand
-This weakens PS consoles sales
-This weakens 60-70$ new game sales on ps5 because PC beggars are screaming for release and then either pirate it, wait for discount or buy it from india reseller....

So whenever any game comes out on ps5, we will have people saying "oh but ff16 will come out on pc in 12 months, so I will play it at 8k 165fps on pc for free"
 
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flaccidsnake

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Yeah... while it's good to have games on pc too, the reality is that:
-This weakens the PS console brand
-This weakens PC consoles sales
-This weakens 60-70$ new game sales on ps5 because PC beggars are screaming for release and then either pirate it, wait for discount or buy it from india reseller....

So whenever any game comes out on ps5, we will have people saying "oh but ff16 will come out on pc in 12 months, so I will play it at 8k 165fps on pc for free"
- it doesn't
- huh
- pc players weren't begging for playstation games, playstation is supporting PC proactively "recognizing the economics of game development"

playing games at 8k 165fps for free is good
 

flaccidsnake

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I don't need evidence to know that exclusives sell consoles.
that's obvious.
Now the gamers who only needed a little push to get a ps5, will just wait

Being the best console sells consoles, and Playstation is by far the best.
 

Systemshock2023

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I don't need evidence to know that exclusives sell consoles.
that's obvious.
Now the gamers who only needed a little push to get a ps5, will just wait
How come WII U didn't sell then. That console had amazing exclusives. Basically carried the switch for the first half of its lifecycle.
 
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Banana

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And in one sentence you highlight the problem that is the elephant in the room: PC might be the best way to play these games, if you spend the money for the specs to make it so. But Sony, like Microsoft before them, are basically starting to say the quiet part out loud.

That is where the longer-term brand damage to the console side could come into play. If I'm an enthusiast gamer on PS5 and realize I can afford to wait a little for some of Sony's 1P games, only to see them show up on PC shortly after and with better performance & more features, AND Sony themselves are actively telling me that PC version is coming (either explicitly in adverts or implicitly through an established cadence of previous ports) soon...why do I need to buy a PlayStation 6?

Hell, why do I need to buy the PS5 Pro that's supposedly coming out next year? No matter what the console could offer me, if I'm the enthusiast who is willing to shell out $500 - $600 for a PS5 Pro, I'm probably also willing to spend 2x that (or more) on a powerful CPU & GPU combo. Getting better-than-PS5 Pro performance in resolution and framerates, mod support, free online, cheaper purchasing price etc. is a steal.

The problem is Sony's flirtation in basically alluding to or advertising those benefits upfront to a portion of their PlayStation console base who are primarily enthusiasts. They're the sort who look more forward to new PS console exclusives announced, not more 1P PC ports. They DON'T look forward to being asked to pay 33% more for online play while PC gamers continue to get the same games (in some cases now Day 1, as with upcoming Helldivers 2) for the same price and free online. Every bit more Sony continues to prioritize PC, if it's with the focus on console side as they've displayed for the past year, is the closer they get to PlayStation having a brand identity crisis.

Soon enough you're going to have some PlayStation CEO on an X-Cast equivalent, venting like a child and crying about their console lacking an identity, and fending off accusations they're treating their console players like second-class citizens in their own ecosystem when actions prove otherwise. I didn't want that for Xbox, I don't want that for PlayStation. But it seems like you couldn't give less of a damn, as long as it means more 1P games on PC, quicker than before, with nothing to balance that out on the console side.



1: I never once asked for Alyx on PSVR2. I don't care. But it's interesting to consider Sony wanting to bring their 1P games to Steam, yet Valve seem apprehensive in doing similar with even one of their own, to a peripheral no less, of Sony's.

2: You wanting Demon's Souls & Bloodborne IS asking/port-begging for games. You're just specifying the particular games you want 😂

3: If the current PC porting strategy creates long-term bleed out that negatively affects console market performance (in generated unit sales, revenue, etc.), then that does eventually affect the customers of that platform brand.

4: The problem isn't that PC has advantages. The problem is that Sony increasingly placate to those advantages while feeling the only "advantage" the console needs is getting the games six months/1 year/2 years earlier. At a higher price, and in some cases without all the PC additions coming over to the console side.

There've been something like maybe 3-4 PC ports announced and released by PlayStation over the past year, but no new 1P traditional titles announced from their internal studios. Yes, some GaaS titles were revealed back in May, but those are likely either getting significantly retooled, cancelled, or will be Day 1 on PC. None of which are bad things in and of themselves, but become bad when there is no balance in delivering equivalent releases or reveals 100% focused on the console playing the brand's known strengths.

I think the longer I have these conversations the better I can understand who's really familiar with PlayStation's console legacy/history and who's more wet behind the ears or a latecomer to that, because it does feel like a lot of those who are both 100% fine with the current PC strategy and want even more of it (including Day 1 for all games), just don't have an appreciation for PlayStation as a console brand or the significance of its history as a console brand in this industry.
I have an original model PS1 with the audio out and gameshark port.

All consoles are anymore are budget PCs for couch play.

Cross over shouldn't be that big.
 
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Banana

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10 Jan 2023
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And in one sentence you highlight the problem that is the elephant in the room: PC might be the best way to play these games, if you spend the money for the specs to make it so. But Sony, like Microsoft before them, are basically starting to say the quiet part out loud.

That is where the longer-term brand damage to the console side could come into play. If I'm an enthusiast gamer on PS5 and realize I can afford to wait a little for some of Sony's 1P games, only to see them show up on PC shortly after and with better performance & more features, AND Sony themselves are actively telling me that PC version is coming (either explicitly in adverts or implicitly through an established cadence of previous ports) soon...why do I need to buy a PlayStation 6?

Hell, why do I need to buy the PS5 Pro that's supposedly coming out next year? No matter what the console could offer me, if I'm the enthusiast who is willing to shell out $500 - $600 for a PS5 Pro, I'm probably also willing to spend 2x that (or more) on a powerful CPU & GPU combo. Getting better-than-PS5 Pro performance in resolution and framerates, mod support, free online, cheaper purchasing price etc. is a steal.

The problem is Sony's flirtation in basically alluding to or advertising those benefits upfront to a portion of their PlayStation console base who are primarily enthusiasts. They're the sort who look more forward to new PS console exclusives announced, not more 1P PC ports. They DON'T look forward to being asked to pay 33% more for online play while PC gamers continue to get the same games (in some cases now Day 1, as with upcoming Helldivers 2) for the same price and free online. Every bit more Sony continues to prioritize PC, if it's with the focus on console side as they've displayed for the past year, is the closer they get to PlayStation having a brand identity crisis.

Soon enough you're going to have some PlayStation CEO on an X-Cast equivalent, venting like a child and crying about their console lacking an identity, and fending off accusations they're treating their console players like second-class citizens in their own ecosystem when actions prove otherwise. I didn't want that for Xbox, I don't want that for PlayStation. But it seems like you couldn't give less of a damn, as long as it means more 1P games on PC, quicker than before, with nothing to balance that out on the console side.



1: I never once asked for Alyx on PSVR2. I don't care. But it's interesting to consider Sony wanting to bring their 1P games to Steam, yet Valve seem apprehensive in doing similar with even one of their own, to a peripheral no less, of Sony's.

2: You wanting Demon's Souls & Bloodborne IS asking/port-begging for games. You're just specifying the particular games you want 😂

3: If the current PC porting strategy creates long-term bleed out that negatively affects console market performance (in generated unit sales, revenue, etc.), then that does eventually affect the customers of that platform brand.

4: The problem isn't that PC has advantages. The problem is that Sony increasingly placate to those advantages while feeling the only "advantage" the console needs is getting the games six months/1 year/2 years earlier. At a higher price, and in some cases without all the PC additions coming over to the console side.

There've been something like maybe 3-4 PC ports announced and released by PlayStation over the past year, but no new 1P traditional titles announced from their internal studios. Yes, some GaaS titles were revealed back in May, but those are likely either getting significantly retooled, cancelled, or will be Day 1 on PC. None of which are bad things in and of themselves, but become bad when there is no balance in delivering equivalent releases or reveals 100% focused on the console playing the brand's known strengths.

I think the longer I have these conversations the better I can understand who's really familiar with PlayStation's console legacy/history and who's more wet behind the ears or a latecomer to that, because it does feel like a lot of those who are both 100% fine with the current PC strategy and want even more of it (including Day 1 for all games), just don't have an appreciation for PlayStation as a console brand or the significance of its history as a console brand in this industry.
The first part of your post is right. If your an enthusiat with a job, PC is the way to go. It isn't the 90s anymore and you aren't a child.

1. You not personally, but I see plenty people doing so.

2. I personally don't care, but see your response to 1 above.

3. Consoles are dyingand mostly inhabited by casuals who don't care, so it really doesn't matter. Cheap and easy wins in that market.

4. You're going to buy a playstation anyway, so why do they care?

Again, I've been a console gamer since the early 90s. The market is different, and playstation isn't the same company as before. Take off your nostalgia goggles.

Edit: whoops lmao. The notifications showed this as a new response.
 

Darth Vader

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The torrent/piracy punchline is stupidity, Piracy is very available on console platforms. Switch is a free for all.

Only someone very brain-dead would compare the piracy scene on PC, where you can get most games with a couple of clicks, run an installer, and play, to the very limited piracy scene on consoles, that involves jailbreak, etc.
 
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anonpuffs

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The first part of your post is right. If your an enthusiat with a job, PC is the way to go. It isn't the 90s anymore and you aren't a child.

1. You not personally, but I see plenty people doing so.

2. I personally don't care, but see your response to 1 above.

3. Consoles are dyingand mostly inhabited by casuals who don't care, so it really doesn't matter. Cheap and easy wins in that market.

4. You're going to buy a playstation anyway, so why do they care?

Again, I've been a console gamer since the early 90s. The market is different, and playstation isn't the same company as before. Take off your nostalgia goggles.

Edit: whoops lmao. The notifications showed this as a new response.
gonna have to disagree. I think the age of PC gaming far outstripping console gaming is coming to an end. With node shrinks getting less and less effective at increasing compute power, upscaling algorithms will become more and more prevalent in determining final resolution. PC components will be more powerful than console, but the advancement in power during the generation is no longer going to be enough to make the PC so far ahead the way it was in the ps4/x1 generation. The current gen consoles are already outputting 4k/60 through upscaling. Next gen we'll probably see DLSS-style upscaling cores which we already know can generate a comparable-if-not-superior-to-native image quality. And CPUs are not improving in singlethreaded performance quickly enough to lap the consoles especially if consoles start using frame gen/frame interpolation tech.
 
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Systemshock2023

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gonna have to disagree. I think the age of PC gaming far outstripping console gaming is coming to an end. With node shrinks getting less and less effective at increasing compute power, upscaling algorithms will become more and more prevalent in determining final resolution. PC components will be more powerful than console, but the advancement in power during the generation is no longer going to be enough to make the PC so far ahead the way it was in the ps4/x1 generation. The current gen consoles are already outputting 4k/60 through upscaling. Next gen we'll probably see DLSS-style upscaling cores which we already know can generate a comparable-if-not-superior-to-native image quality. And CPUs are not improving in singlethreaded performance quickly enough to lap the consoles especially if consoles start using frame gen/frame interpolation tech.

That means the age of consoles is also coming to an end. PCs being several times more powerful than consoles through a generation is a good thing because it means there's more alternatives for a powerful and cost/thermal effective next gen console, as they use pretty much the same HW these days.

TBH I wouldn't mind generations getting much longer to wait for that leap in technology and have developers getting more out of the hardware, both in console and pc.
 
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anonpuffs

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That means the age of consoles is also coming to an end. PCs being several times more powerful than consoles through a generation is a good thing because it means there's more alternatives for a powerful and cost/thermal effective next gen console, as they use pretty much the same HW these days.

TBH I wouldn't mind generations getting much longer to wait for that leap in technology and have developers getting more out of the hardware, both in console and pc.
The problem of PC gaming is that it's supposed to be a general compute platform, but gaming is going to start using more and more custom features. Stuff like having an APU so memory access is centralized, storage compression and decompression in certain data formats being integrated deeply into the OS and hardware stack, dedicated hardware for certain AI functions. new control interfaces etc...plus hardware manufacturers are more interested in selling to hyperscalers and businesses these days than regular consumers. Consoles will still exist because Sony, Nintendo, etc can achieve the economies of scale to produce consumer level hardware. EVGA stepping out of the GPU market is just a portent of things to come.
 

Systemshock2023

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Consoles will still exist because Sony, Nintendo, etc can achieve the economies of scale to produce consumer level hardware. EVGA stepping out of the GPU market is just a portent of things to come.

You mean AMD and Nvidia right? The switch is more or less a gimped NVIDIA shield. And consoles are a low margin long term side gig for these companies, specially NVIDIA.

Post AI boom NVIDIA must be really fleecing NIntendo for the Switch 2 HW. Where else are they going to go? Their hands are tied. Same for Sony and MS with AMD. AMD is the only one that can provide what they are looking since they started developing APUs 12/13 years ago. If they go the ARM route, they will likely compromise on BC.

Without AMD and Nvidia interested there's no way for consoles to progress. I don't see console providers switching back to exotic tailor made console architectures developed by them. They can't afford the R&D. The cell processor almost sinks Sony.

I agree with the rest of your post.
 
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JAHGamer

JAHGamer

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Post AI boom NVIDIA must be really fleecing NIntendo for the Switch 2 HW. Where else are they going to go? Their hands are tied. Same for Sony and MS with AMD. AMD is the only one that can provide what they are looking since they started developing APUs 12/13 years ago. If they go the ARM route, they will likely compromise on BC.
This is incorrect, Nintendo wouldn't have their arms tied at all, they're the best sellers right now and many companies would be willing to work with them, no Nvidia and AMD aren't the only options 🤣. Sony also makes their own processors so that's incorrect as well, they're not beholden to anyone. ARM doesn't compromise backwards compatibility either, Apple proved that with their M1/M2 Macs.
 
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