Sony's future and possible studio/publisher acquisitions
- Thread starter Eternal_Wings
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Well that’s the fun of a bet. We will see, but I am pretty confident not to lose
Sony took away their game from the store, are heavily overpriced, many of their key talent left the studio, their store have a tiny market share and being anti-protection free isn't compatible with Sony and certain 3rd parties and their studio culture and working conditions suck and would be difficult to change. So I think nope.CDPR?
But I also see why they would want to buy them, maybe after waiting that their price goes down to be normalized with their results and assets. Also, with proper management Sony could make them change, but I see it easier opening or buying a new studio from there with many top talent from CD Projekt, Tecland and Flying Wild Hog.
Also, Cyberpunk had a ton of flaws specially in console but did a lot of things right. Asking them a next gen only PS5 sequel (leaving a PC version for later, ported by someone else) with proper Sony management and help from other Sony teams fixing the obvious issues that they may not have been able to fix due to time and resource limits would be really awesome.
But well, CD Projekt makes a type of game that Sony already has very well covered with several Sony IPs. I see them making acquisitions more related to GaaS, mobile, VR, MP, eSports and genres where Sony doesn't have any presence or very little presence.
In any case, I think it will depend if each company wants to sell or not or the available budget they SIE has for investments and acquisitions during that or the next year.
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Last I check their price had tumbled. While they'd probably cost more thank Bungie it would be less than a year or two ago.
In terms of them being well covered I disagree. Witcher is a 'true' RPG so a different category to many of Sony's games.
They don't make too many games, but I think Witcher 4 will be huge. Plus like the previous entry it will no doubt have more than one piece of dlc, and limited and GoTY editions etc.
Witcher would be a good riposte to MS taking Starfield and Elder Scrolls too. Ultimately it's just speculation and not Sony's usual profile, but then I thought the same about Bungie.
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Lets cut the noise. The bottom line is that CDPR is a significant upgrade over Guerrilla which is the studio Yurinka failed to mention but obviously alludes to - the WRPG studio line.
While Guerrila are extremely competent tech wise, with Decima being a world class engine they're extremely mediocre at world creation and story telling - that is, creating great memorable games. Even after supposedly stacking the deck with ex-CDPR story tellers Horizon Zero Dawn and sequel are still safe AAA mids. It's flashy, extremely polished, a tech marvel but the world and story, after a sequel, leaves a lot to be desired and they keep bumping on the same rock. This is emblematic of the same troubles they had with Killzone - a mid franchise. PlayStation fans obviously prop them up, specially when the quality is there to back it up (we all appreciate that hard work so rare in this industry) but the deficiencies of that studio to ship a stellar all around package and join the likes of Santa Monica or Naughty Dog continue unabated. They just can't make the jump to Bungie/ND/Santa Monica class - its been a long time now.
The question of acquiring CDPR revolves more around the ego of Herman Hulst more so than the merit of the acquisition itself or price. The Witcher and Cyberpunk IP, plus GoG as a working blueprint for a future PlayStation store front on PC has synergy written all over it. That is not to say there shouldn't be a careful look at CDPR, its leadership, management and leads - plus a gazillion other details but to dismiss them outright due to personal shuffling that occurs at every studio in this industry is disingenuous and misleading. Just look at ND turnover. Moreover, CDPR is CHEAP to maintain due to eastern european wage differentials. Cyberpunk was and is a great title which rightfully got shat on and destroyed by the shit CDPR management tried to pull - let that be a lesson, but we shouldn't blind ourselves to everything else.
So when I say it's about the ego of Herman, it's quite simple. If you acquire CDPR this studio will obviously suck the attention and resources in the WRPG line as Sony's next All-Star, to enable them to ship world class titles. I can bet you a million it will ruffle feathers with certain individuals and studios, specially Guerrilla which will see its niche inside the organization squeezed. Guerrilla is Herman's baby - on a personal level we probably can't comprehend what that studio means to him - it's literally his career. That love however shouldn't detract from the fact that they have a lot of mediocre leads who have been at Guerrilla for way too long with long careers in an industry where only the best of the very best truly shine and get the recognition and success. Being great is nice, being the cream of the crop is better. You can have the two being part of the same family, while the obvious stays obvious.
CDPR is an upgrade over Guerrilla Games on a balanced scale of pros and cons, that is the bottomline. That is not to say if I were in a similar position as Herman I would outright disband Guerilla or fail to maintain their space - to the contrary. Guerrilla has earned their stripes, if anything for their dependability and punctuality in shipping titles, something that you rarely see talked about when discussing Sony's in-house dev teams, but rest assured and look it up, when Sony needs a title shipped during critical crunch console launch windows, Guerilla has been there shipping the product. They're a loyal, dependable worker - and that has value and merit. With that said this is business, so if you have a chance to get a Bungie, you do so, and if you have a chance to get a CDPR, you better do so as well. The man that has a lot of say in this regard, if not the most to say today is Herman Hulst, with Jim obviously giving the approval stamp after the numbers are worked out.
Sony does not need another Kadokawa situation like with FromSoftware, where you have to go through an intermediary to get what you want. If you can work out a good deal with CDPR, in this environment, you better work it. There is still no intermediary in between.
While Guerrila are extremely competent tech wise, with Decima being a world class engine they're extremely mediocre at world creation and story telling - that is, creating great memorable games. Even after supposedly stacking the deck with ex-CDPR story tellers Horizon Zero Dawn and sequel are still safe AAA mids. It's flashy, extremely polished, a tech marvel but the world and story, after a sequel, leaves a lot to be desired and they keep bumping on the same rock. This is emblematic of the same troubles they had with Killzone - a mid franchise. PlayStation fans obviously prop them up, specially when the quality is there to back it up (we all appreciate that hard work so rare in this industry) but the deficiencies of that studio to ship a stellar all around package and join the likes of Santa Monica or Naughty Dog continue unabated. They just can't make the jump to Bungie/ND/Santa Monica class - its been a long time now.
The question of acquiring CDPR revolves more around the ego of Herman Hulst more so than the merit of the acquisition itself or price. The Witcher and Cyberpunk IP, plus GoG as a working blueprint for a future PlayStation store front on PC has synergy written all over it. That is not to say there shouldn't be a careful look at CDPR, its leadership, management and leads - plus a gazillion other details but to dismiss them outright due to personal shuffling that occurs at every studio in this industry is disingenuous and misleading. Just look at ND turnover. Moreover, CDPR is CHEAP to maintain due to eastern european wage differentials. Cyberpunk was and is a great title which rightfully got shat on and destroyed by the shit CDPR management tried to pull - let that be a lesson, but we shouldn't blind ourselves to everything else.
So when I say it's about the ego of Herman, it's quite simple. If you acquire CDPR this studio will obviously suck the attention and resources in the WRPG line as Sony's next All-Star, to enable them to ship world class titles. I can bet you a million it will ruffle feathers with certain individuals and studios, specially Guerrilla which will see its niche inside the organization squeezed. Guerrilla is Herman's baby - on a personal level we probably can't comprehend what that studio means to him - it's literally his career. That love however shouldn't detract from the fact that they have a lot of mediocre leads who have been at Guerrilla for way too long with long careers in an industry where only the best of the very best truly shine and get the recognition and success. Being great is nice, being the cream of the crop is better. You can have the two being part of the same family, while the obvious stays obvious.
CDPR is an upgrade over Guerrilla Games on a balanced scale of pros and cons, that is the bottomline. That is not to say if I were in a similar position as Herman I would outright disband Guerilla or fail to maintain their space - to the contrary. Guerrilla has earned their stripes, if anything for their dependability and punctuality in shipping titles, something that you rarely see talked about when discussing Sony's in-house dev teams, but rest assured and look it up, when Sony needs a title shipped during critical crunch console launch windows, Guerilla has been there shipping the product. They're a loyal, dependable worker - and that has value and merit. With that said this is business, so if you have a chance to get a Bungie, you do so, and if you have a chance to get a CDPR, you better do so as well. The man that has a lot of say in this regard, if not the most to say today is Herman Hulst, with Jim obviously giving the approval stamp after the numbers are worked out.
Sony does not need another Kadokawa situation like with FromSoftware, where you have to go through an intermediary to get what you want. If you can work out a good deal with CDPR, in this environment, you better work it. There is still no intermediary in between.
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I don’t think Sony will make a move for cdpr but if they did I think they’d leave their games multiplatform. One to get through regulators and two, because it would make financial sense.
D
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With MS pulling Elder Scrolls and Starfield exclusive, we all know who's the only one that needs to be left out as a sensible strategic move - Xbox. And that's being generous to MS, since they more or less own the PC market through their Windows OS. Given the potential uproar of the loyal following of CDPR on PC, it's best to release there as well. Although, fuck Steam - they don't deserve the cut, specially in a scenario where you get to own GoG. It's however true that they got the majority of the sheep on lock at Steam and they cry a lot but Sony can take the hit, unlike CDPR. If they're gonna cave to the Windows PC Platform, get your storefront for gods sake.
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Yes, it went down but its market cap is still 13.35B PLN ($3B USD), too overpriced.
Sony paid $2.4B for the 100% of the Sony stocks when Bungie generates way more revenue and profit and had the valuable Destiny IP. Ubisoft has a gazillion top IPs, over 20000 workers in over 40 studios, make a ton of revenue and their market cap is 3.21B Eur ($3.4B USD).
It doesn't make sense at all a market cap of $3B for CD Projekt, it should be maximum half of that being generous.
ABK sales represent a small portion of console and PC game sales. CD Projekt represent a tiny insignificant portion of the consoles and PC market, regulators wouldn't care at all about the acquisition of CD Projekt and making their games exclusive. They only released a handful of great selling games separated by many years. There are many other games with similar sales being released every single year.
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I'll add to this: that acquisition will only go through if MS buys Activision.
OP
OP
D
Deleted member 223
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Yes, it went down but its market cap is still 13.35B PLN ($3B USD), too overpriced.
Sony paid $2.4B for the 100% of the Sony stocks when Bungie generates way more revenue and profit and had the valuable Destiny IP. Ubisoft has a gazillion top IPs, over 20000 workers in over 40 studios, make a ton of revenue and their market cap is 3.21B Eur ($3.4B USD).
It doesn't make sense at all a market cap of $3B for CD Projekt, it should be maximum half of that being generous.
ABK sales represent a small portion of console and PC game sales. CD Projekt represent a tiny insignificant portion of the consoles and PC market, regulators wouldn't care at all about the acquisition of CD Projekt and making their games exclusive. They only released a handful of great selling games separated by many years. There are many other games with similar sales being released every single year.
The numbers will def need to be worked out. I agree that they're still overvalued, as I was of that opinion before the crash and the crazy hype. Kinda amusing clowns back then were justifying the market cap valuation - 8B I believe?
Almost def something will happen if the Activision deal goes through. Cross fingers hoping it's not Square but a smarter, more influential get.
I think Sony already reacted before MS decided to acquire ABK: Sony noticed that MS wanted to almost monopolize the FPS genre when they got ID and Machine games, so Sony decided to acquire Bungie (who was working in Destiny and at least 2 upcoming new IPs) and make 2nd party games with Deviation, Firewalk and Haven. They already had the Arrowhead in the works, and regarding internal teams also decided to make shooters from Firesprite and Sony London and to turn the TLOU2 MP game mode into a GaaS.
I assume all of them will make different types of shooters, that somewhat will be equivalent to Halo, Gears, CoD, Doom, Wolfenstein, Rainbow Six Siege/Overwatch/Valorant/Apex and Fortnite but with their own Sony flavor. This is how I think Sony will react to miss or potentially lose these games in the future.
Instead of reacting acquiring big publishers and their IPs, they go to acquire the talent who made them or at least get 2nd party games from them to test new studios made with former key staff of these games. Having MS, Tencent, Take 2 or Embracer making acquisitions, maybe Sony will do the same to secure other top genres where they don't have a big presence with 1st and 2nd party and that are dominated by a few companies like RPG, horror or fighting.
That could lead to maybe Sony wanting to acquire Square, Capcom or studios with former creators, but these other genres aren't so big as action adventure, shooters and open world games, where Sony now will have a great presence, so I think will be more unlikely to them making aggresive big acquisitons there. But hey, everything is possible. Also, remember that to buy a company doesn't only depends on who buys: the seller also has to want to sell.
OP
OP
Sony is targeting to fill the gaps in portfolio which genre they lack to cover. And still people forget if Sony will acquire publisher(s), the first thing they will look after is if the company shares identical synergies. Bungie was just bought to prevent them being acquired by Microsoft or Tencent for example and to cover their lack in FPS. It’s funny how people always reduce Japanese publishers here. Square Enix for example is more than just games. This also applies to Playstation. Playstation or Sony in general isn’t just console gaming. They offer so more: TVs, electronic products, e-cars soon, Music, Anime, Manga, movies, financial solutions (owned banks) etc. You need to take of the console glasses, it’s not just about console games. Sony is investing a lot in anime, manga and mobile gaming recently and how it happens, most of this collaboration are with Square Enix. I am pretty confident if Sony acquires a publisher in full, it will be Square Enix. And the bet is still ongoing, not going to break my promise. Mark my words!
If ABK goes through, Sony will definitely need to get bigger, maybe lean in more heavily with their association with Japanese games to further differentiate themselves. Either way they can't afford to let XGS be three times larger than their first party.
Quality always wins, Nintendo is smaller than both Sony and Xbox and they are fine. As long as there's titles like Fortnite, Apex and the likes I think Sony will be fine.
Part of the reason Nintendo are fine, though, is because their hardware is nowhere near cutting edge. They are at least two generations behind on a technological front, and they price their hardware at big profit margins from Day 1 while selling boatloads and gamers nor customers at large really complaining (part of this is probably fueled by nostalgia).
Sony can't really replicate that model without betraying the expectations from the fanbase they will deliver some cutting edge technology with each system, or feeling like the "Apple of console gaming" in terms of premium quality many people associate with the brand. I do think Sony are looking into ways to utilize that perception for increasing profit margins on hardware via slightly higher MSRPs, but they won't do it if it comes at the expense of performance or build quality.
Also it can't be understated just how strong some of Nintendo's IPs really are. It's a combination of how for some, the actual production costs of the games are much lower than typical marquee AAA games from Sony or even Microsoft, let alone 3P like Take Two (GTA) or ABK (COD). I think Nintendo probably have the highest profit margins per AAA release than any other publisher in the industry, honestly. There's also the fact that Nintendo have a small handful of IP that tend to do VERY big numbers (like, regularly 15+ million each new installment like Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Zelda), at least somewhat more than Sony, and way more than Microsoft. But there's also specific IP like Pokemon which are massive outside of gaming due to the anime and card game contributing to their revenue & profits, too.
I think Sony need at least one massive IP with strong transmedia potential to really secure a strong safety net aside from 3P revenue. Personally, I think Horizon is a frontrunner in that respect out of the more recent IP. They have other IP which can do strongly in select multimedia streams alongside gaming, like TLOU, but that series being for mature audiences limits some of that potential. Actually, Sony kind of also have this potential with Spiderman since they own the movie rights to like 900 Spiderman characters. They would have to license those rights for games and other media, but I assume that wouldn't be very difficult and Spiderman is one of the most popular IP in the world.
So while other companies could say make a Spiderman anime series or Spiderman tabletop card game franchise, they wouldn't be able to tie those to a film universe the way Sony can.
Nintendo QUIT and surrendered in the home console race after getting their ass beat. Revisionist history. They only make handhelds now and hold games back about a decade. Nintendo is 100% completely irrelevant to home console gaming.
I'm curious to see what Bluepoint's original game looks like. They do a pretty good job with remakes.
Although I don't like a lot of the atmosphere/art direction changes, Demon's Souls is a technological powerhouse of a game.
Although I don't like a lot of the atmosphere/art direction changes, Demon's Souls is a technological powerhouse of a game.
I’d like to see what they come up with. Remakes don’t prove their pedigree to me.
If they pull it off tho? It would speak volumes about Sony’s ability to cultivate talent. I want to see them deliver.