Sony’s stock value drop by about $10b after lowering PS5’s sales forecast for the fiscal year, analysts question near decade-low profit margin
- Thread starter Gamernyc78
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While I agree, I think that's besides the point. Sony should give users in their platform preferential treatment, not the other way around. It sends the wrong message to their customer base.
This.
Nintendo makes most of their money from 1st party because their game are super cheap to make and never go on sale. Conversely, Sony never really made most of their profit from 1st party, that's just the cherry on top. 1st party games are to draw people in to buy everything else, PS Plus subs, 3rd party games, dlc, mtx, controllers, headsets, etc. Which makes the PC port initiative even dumber
Would people complain if Sony is making a 1st party games which would look like Nintendo games? Which means greater amount of released games, but with dogshit graphics and performance.
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Yeah, the strategy has to be diff when tons of third party skip your console you have to rely on first party and the regurgitation and lack of evolution in alot of Nintendo games is real for a reason. They don't try to advance to much and are way behind the competition in many things but ppl love their game mechanics and their Nintendo ips are entrenched in ppls homes for decades so thy will sell.Nintendo makes most of their money from 1st party because their game are super cheap to make and never go on sale. Conversely, Sony never really made most of their profit from 1st party, that's just the cherry on top. 1st party games are to draw people in to buy everything else, PS Plus subs, 3rd party games, dlc, mtx, controllers, headsets, etc. Which makes the PC port initiative even dumber
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Ever since more pc port ps5 sales seems to slow down i wonder why
Nintendo makes most of their money from 1st party because their game are super cheap to make and never go on sale. Conversely, Sony never really made most of their profit from 1st party, that's just the cherry on top. 1st party games are to draw people in to buy everything else, PS Plus subs, 3rd party games, dlc, mtx, controllers, headsets, etc. Which makes the PC port initiative even dumber
I don’t know if Nintendo games are super cheap to make. They seem to have around the same amount of people working, and in Japan Nintendo is viewed as a white company in the sense that they pay really well, provide a positive work life balance environment.
Their games also seem to take a long time to make and Nintendo has always been notorious for not rushing games out.
We have seen from Insomniacs leaks that actually, the vast majority of the cost is simply.. headcount.
Over a thousand people worked on Tears of the Kingdom, and the game was in development for five to six years?
This idea that Nintendo games are low budget needs to end.
Yes, we've already seen the "excellent" sales figures on PCs...go put more games on PC, it will surely help...
And from my personal observations, the gaming market in my country is doing quite poorly, and PCs are strongly dominating, as well as PC piracy. Compared to Poland, it's barely alive now, and the situation has deteriorated a lot since the russian war.
But since 2014, despite all the economic factors, PS4 has been gaining popularity (it's the first official console from Sony) and gradually taking over the market.
Even I bought my own PS4 in 2019, and started buying old and new releases (I used to borrow the console for the weekend), and then I started talking to other people who also had PS4s.
Now, those who even now have the opportunity to buy new releases for the PS5 are not doing so actively because they have lost trust in Sony. Many loyal users who started with PS 1\2 (these consoles were hacked, with pirated games, but there were no other options then), say outright that they keep PS5 for certain interesting releases and look towards PC or SteamDeck. And this started after the PC ports, talk of GaaS, and even the Days Gone story.
I also have a PS5, and I now agree with their opinion.
Judging by the sentiments I've seen online, from users in Poland, the US, and Japan, similar sentiments are now appearing in the major gaming markets themselves, and this is not a 3rd world problem.
And for this, it was necessary to destroy the legacy of the PS4?
Don't say this. We have a load of users here, twitter, reddit, that all say the same thing, but somehow these are anecdotes that do not have any truth to them. Meanwhile they missed their sales target by 4M. A coincidence.
Would people complain if Sony is making a 1st party games which would look like Nintendo games? Which means greater amount of released games, but with dogshit graphics and performance.
What I know is that 23 had one original first party game from PlayStation. Imagine if that was the trend, you would get 8 first party games in a generation.
Obviously PlayStation hasn’t done a good job of coordinating its studios, and improving production pipeline, pre production practices, avoiding feature/scope creep, and having an healthy balance between AA/AAA/AAAA games.
Does it make sense that in 2025 apparently they are going to be super aggressive? The year GTA hits? This is really bad timing.
30% commission from PSN, which is one of the key profit items.Nintendo makes most of their money from 1st party because their game are super cheap to make and never go on sale. Conversely, Sony never really made most of their profit from 1st party, that's just the cherry on top. 1st party games are to draw people in to buy everything else, PS Plus subs, 3rd party games, dlc, mtx, controllers, headsets, etc. Which makes the PC port initiative even dumber
But did Sony's management believe that the destruction of the system seller policy and the Only on Playstation brand, for the sake of quick and dubious short-term profits, would not affect anything?
Do they believe that they can make a PC launcher that will not drown in competition with Steam and piracy?
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Doesn't need to end, in comparison to others they are lower budget, thts factual. Botw and TOTK (and maybe xenogears) aren't the norm but the out liars for Nintendo. TOTK had tht many ppl working on it and idk why since it was basically using tons of assets from botw and was just an evolution of that. Much of that was outsourced localization, Marketing and other bs Botw is said to have had around 300 ppl working on it. Needed to only sell 2 million to recoup it's dev budget and be profitable.
You can see and feel the non evolution in Nintendo games as you play at least I can. Botw was empty and barren asf so idc what It scored. Which is why I didn't even bother to get TOTK. The restriction on hardware and budgets show in many of their games. We all know why they turn the most profitability, it isn't rocket science and has been documented tons of times.
With Xbox kinda going Multiplatform and rumours showing Nintendo releasing in 2025, which GTA6 releases on PS5.
There value should be going up not down.
There value should be going up not down.
I'm sorry, but is this sarcasm or are you serious?)
It just really seems to me that there is a lot of negative sentiment now, from formerly loyal PS4 customers who also partially switched to PS5, but were disappointed after a number of questionable decisions on Sony's part.
There was something similar in the PS4 days, but it was often PC gamers and XBOX fans (who were often the same PC gamers, and supported XBOX only for the PC ports), but it all looked different... The criticism was strange at the time, as if those people had never played Sony games.
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It will go up as soon as some exec talking piece releases new positive info. Stock market are very fickle and go up and down all the time depending on the news (which I'm sure you know but just saying).
It's sarcasm.
On another note, it's hilarious that Sony trying to join Xbox on the race to "growth through any cost" which has brought an era of PC ports and inflated acquisitions is actually the cause of the lower profit margins and slower growth. Essentially following in the failed footsteps of Xbox.
Nintendo has shown the key to high profits is a strong first party and lower (AA) development costs. Sony seems to be racing towards the other direction with astronomical development costs, thanks to Marvel licensing, a slower first party and less revenue through porting to Steam.
I would definitely complain, Sony 1st party are in a league of their own because they're one of the few groups that excel at everything, graphics, gameplay, writing, sound, etc. Only a few 3rd party can compare, Rockstar, CDPR, and now Remedy.Would people complain if Sony is making a 1st party games which would look like Nintendo games? Which means greater amount of released games, but with dogshit graphics and performance.
Yes they are much cheaper, Zelda isn't the only game Nintendo makes and it's not the standard dev environment for Nintendo 1st party. Just because 1 game out of dozens has a team of 1000 doesn't mean they all do.
And when I say cheap, I mean relatively cheap. Nintendo salaries being better than other Japanese companies doesn't mean much when the average JP salary is much lower than Western countries. Doubly so when compared to those in California where many of Sony's studios are located.
Breath of the Wild had a team of 900, and by Nintendo's own admission, needed 2m sales to break even. At $60, that's roughly $120m.... with 900 employees. Meanwhile Guerilla had 300 devs and Horizon Forbidden West cost $240m USD, Naughty Dog also had around 300 devs and TLOU2 cost $220m to make.
Nintendo had 3x the headcount and still half the budget!
And not to mention, Nintendo also contracts their IPs out to 3rd party, which makes development even cheaper, ArtePiazza made Super Mario RPG remake and they only have 30 developers! Small teams like that are much more common for Nintendo than the Zelda team.
So yes, it's fair to say Nintendo games are SUPER CHEAP compared to Sony's. That idea doesn't need to die at all, it's literally reality.
Japan just went into a recession, it isn't just Sony, most of their companies on the stock exchange took a hit last week.
Their operating margin is low because every year they reinvest most of their revenue/profits on making a shit ton of internal games and hardware/accesories, signing deals with 3rd parties to get more exclusives or PS+ titles, growing all their internal teams to allow them make more games at the same time and in making acquisitions, which during some years after completing them still have related costs (Sony said the related costs of recent SIE acquisitions will ease next fiscal year).
What Jim Ryan called 'virtuous circle': to reinvest the money you make to grow organically and make even more money in the future, which they reinvest again.
Many of these things are long term investments (they also invested in Epic, From Soft or Devolver btw) or have been to grow in new areas (shooters/GaaS, PC, mobile, Asia...), some of which will start to provide great profits. Or like PC are starting to do so. Same with licensing their IPs to make movies and tv shows with Sony Pictures.
As an example, GaaS like Helldivers 2, Concord or Marathon will greatly bump their revenue and profitability this year. PC ports are already generating them hundreds of millions outside PS per year and have a great yoy growth. They are also investing in mobile, which will also give them extra revenue and profitability.
They are making hundreds of millions per year on PC and each port costs them only around $2M to be made, meaning it's a very profitable business for them. This while their console business remains growing, its active userbase achieved PS history record this quarter, so it isn't having any negative effect to their console business, which in most areas is better than ever (or almost).
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