Phil Spencer admits defeat in console space, and doesn't think great games would help Xbox's market share.

[ApolloHelios]

Saturday night on the week of release and there's only 1.1k playing on Steam. I've never seen something like this for an AAA from a major publisher. Ghostwire was 14k and Deathloop 20k.

Remember when Harvey Smith said Redfall could become Arkane's biggest game?

View attachment 1296

Ufff holy hell that's low

 

[Gediminas]

Saturday night on the week of release and there's only 1.1k playing on Steam. I've never seen something like this for an AAA from a major publisher. Ghostwire was 14k and Deathloop 20k.

Remember when Harvey Smith said Redfall could become Arkane's biggest game?

View attachment 1296

biggest flop. yes, we heard

 

[anonpuffs]

Funny seeing people desperately cling to the idea that Redfall can be saved like FF14 or no mans sky. It's not worth saving. The idea isn't good enough to be worth spending 3+ years trying to fix it; plus arkane isn't good enough to turn this game around.

 

[BigMclargeHuge]

Phil's message is pretty clear. It's not about selling the most consoles worldwide. They have a different business model. It's about cloud gaming and Game Pass subs.
Soon they're going to own Activision-Blizzard and then Sega or Capcom (or both). Game Pass will dominate the gaming market (Netflix of Gaming) with Game Pass and with consoles in the USA.
The rest doesn't matter.

Christ, you're pathetic.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Phil's message is pretty clear. It's not about selling the most consoles worldwide. They have a different business model. It's about cloud gaming and Game Pass subs.
Soon they're going to own Activision-Blizzard and then Sega or Capcom (or both). Game Pass will dominate the gaming market (Netflix of Gaming) with Game Pass and with consoles in the USA.
The rest doesn't matter.

He also said that he had no clue how the UK gvt' got the idea that cloud was an important part of future business.

So he probably is telling lies?

The sad truth is that he uses weasel words and imprecise language so that cult followers can understand whatever they want from what he is saying while never truly catching him in his web of lies.

He said himself that GP would never be more than 10 - 15% of their gamin revenue, this is hardly domination. Especially if you consider that Sony has more subs on their equivalent service.

Anyway, good for them if they like being third and the also ran competitor in this market.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Rewatching the interview...something Phil says that is disingenuous is when he talks about wanting to give teams creative freedom. The concept itself isn't the issue...it's the fact he uses HiFi Rush as an example, when he was never the one who greenlit that game. HiFi Rush was in development since 2017, so Pete Hines is the one who deserves credit for greenlighting that game and letting Tango have their creative freedom there.

By the time Microsoft acquired Zenimax, HiFi Rush would have been entering the last stages of development so what aspects of its development are Phil taking credit for in that statement? Not getting in the way of the last parts of the development cycle? Or, certainly, not gutting the game and pushing for a redesign in the scope of two years like it sounds they've done with RedFall, if some disgruntled employees on Twitter are to be believed?

I'm seeing articles from all over with a variation of the headline that Xbox has lost the console war according to its chief. I cannot emphasise this enough: this is the worst interview by a gaming industry figure ever. He's signed Xbox's death warrant. No one reading those headlines or those articles is going to want to buy a console the person in charge of selling them has no confidence in.

Sales will crater even further, Starfield looks set to flop, and with the CMA and savvy regulators blocking MS from anticompetitive acquisitions, Microsoft can't even throw Xbox a lifesaver.

Love this outcome - they were too fucking arrogant. I just hope posters like sleepy stick around so we can rub their noses in it for eternity.

You know what? Now that you mention it...there's aspects of that interview which do kind of have some "the Saturn is not our future" vibes. There's a point where he's explicitly asked about Xbox but Phil's answer refers to other aspects of the ecosystem like PC and Game Pass, the answer is never explicitly focused on Xbox the way the question was. That can be seen as somewhat telling.

Sega's future at that time was Dreamcast; they just had a CEO stupidly refer to it (indirectly) pretty much killing momentum for the system that was already on the market (Saturn). Microsoft's future is cloud, subscription, and mobile, they just have a CEO who might have stupidly signified that at a time when they should have been doubling-down on reassuring the presence of the consoles already on the market (Xbox Series S & S).

Hopefully for Microsoft's sake their future ambitions pan out better than Sega's did. It's just a weird case of deja vu in a way, but it does kind of depend on how you choose to look at aspects of the X-Cast interview.

 

[Systemshock2023]

As the Joker said in The Dark Knight: "Very poor choice of words"

Yeah, you don't win the console race with a single game. But how about releasing quality games every single year? A big game can be the turning point just like Uncharted 2 was for Sony on the 7th gen. What irks me the most about everything that Spencer said was the part where he said something along "We had mock reviews where Redfall scored 10 points more than current MC" MC was in the mid 60s I believe so...are you fine with releasing a game with MC score in the 70s????? Specially after you showed it left and right as your tentpole Xbox game???? Also charging 70 USD for it? Just change 30 USD and disguise it as Early Access. But they can't do that after they showed it as their showstopper.

AAA 1st party games should aim for nothing but the highest quality. Third parties, Indies and AA may release mediocre games. I don't like everything Sony releases these days but can't deny that their games have polish and mass appeal. They are the platform holders, their standards should be higher than any other studios. And they deliver on that premise.

Also, Arkane is clearly not in the zone... Deathloop was already mediocre. Spencer should have released Redfall as multiplat to lessen the blow if they knew it was going to be terrible
I knew this game was already going to bomb at its first reveal. Really, another run of the mill looter shooter? They should have released a Deus Ex remake. That's how you do it.

Regarding what he said about "outconsoling" Sony and Nintendo. How about at least getting close to their sales? Don't tell me there's no place for 350M consoles sold every generation between the big 3.

 

[Gediminas]

As the Joker said in The Dark Knight: "Very poor choice of words"

Yeah, you don't win the console race with a single game. But how about releasing quality games every single year? A big game can be the turning point just like Uncharted 2 was for Sony on the 7th gen. What irks me the most about everything that Spencer said was the part where he said something along "We had mock reviews where Redfall scored 10 points more than current MC" MC was in the mid 60s I believe so...are you fine with releasing a game with MC score in the 70s????? Specially after you showed it left and right as your tentpole Xbox game???? Also charging 70 USD for it? Just change 30 USD and disguise it as Early Access. But they can't do that after they showed it as their showstopper.

AAA 1st party games should aim for nothing but the highest quality. Third parties, Indies and AA may release mediocre games. I don't like everything Sony releases these days but can't deny that their games have polish and mass appeal. They are the platform holders, their standards should be higher than any other studios. And they deliver on that premise.

Also, Arkane is clearly not in the zone... Deathloop was already mediocre. Spencer should have released Redfall as multiplat to lessen the blow if they knew it was going to be terrible
I knew this game was already going to bomb at its first reveal. Really, another run of the mill looter shooter? They should have released a Deus Ex remake. That's how you do it.

Regarding what he said about "outconsoling" Sony and Nintendo. How about at least getting close to their sales? Don't tell me there's no place for 350M consoles sold every generation between the big 3.

imagine, Xbox releasing God of War R, Horizon FW, GT7, Returnal, Ratchet and Clank, Demon's Souls, Spider Man, about to release Spider Man 2, FF16, FF7RR

and Playstation releasing Crossfire X, Gunk, Pentiment, Redfall, Halo Infinite, Flight Simulator.

if you tell me, that wouldn't sell xbox and wouldn't somewhat stop selling PS5? people are delusional, just making excuses.

 

[Nhomnhom]

imagine, Xbox releasing God of War R, Horizon FW, GT7, Returnal, Ratchet and Clank, Demon's Souls, Spider Man, about to release Spider Man 2, FF16, FF7RR

and Playstation releasing Crossfire X, Gunk, Pentiment, Redfall, Halo Infinite, Flight Simulator.

if you tell me, that wouldn't sell xbox and would somewhat stop selling PS5? people are delusional, just making excuses.

Even assuming that Xbox could make great games if they wanted, how would Phil Spencer force Sony to start releasing shit games?

Will he also wipe peoples memories for the last 10 years?

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Even assuming that Xbox could make great games if they wanted, how would Phil Spencer force Sony to start releasing shit games?

Will he also wipe peoples memories for the last 10 years?

1. Nintendo has a market of their own with their good games, so people would either have to get the Sony and MS box... Or go with the one that had the games they care about the most.. which is much better than what Xbox has to offer now.

2. No, but they could start to build a reputation, that does take time... But not that much.

 

[Nhomnhom]

1. Nintendo has a market of their own with their good games, so people would either have to get the Sony and MS box... Or go with the one that had the games they care about the most.. which is much better than what Xbox has to offer now.

2. No, but they could start to build a reputation, that does take time... But not that much.

MS does not have the patience to spend the next 10 years in last place building a reputation hoping one of the other two will fumble their lead away. It's over.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

MS does not have the patience to spend the next 10 years in last place building a reputation hoping one of the other two will fumble their lead away. It's over.

The thing is that they should have kept and improved upon whatever they had going on early last gen (minus the Kinect focus). But I suspect that dollar bill Phil decided to cancel pretty much everything and he started to buy studios 3 or 4 years later.

The part I don't get is that some of these should have had projects at different stages and big games should have been coming out steadily from 2020 at least. Maybe not all 9s, but honest high 80s or something worthy of mention in a list war.

 

[Satoru]

Yeah, you don't win the console race with a single game. But how about releasing quality games every single year? A big game can be the turning point just like Uncharted 2 was for Sony on the 7th gen. What irks me the most about everything that Spencer said was the part where he said something along "We had mock reviews where Redfall scored 10 points more than current MC" MC was in the mid 60s I believe so...are you fine with releasing a game with MC score in the 70s????? Specially after you showed it left and right as your tentpole Xbox game???? Also charging 70 USD for it? Just change 30 USD and disguise it as Early Access. But they can't do that after they showed it as their showstopper.

This highlights a lot of what's wrong with Xbox, but their fanbase is also to blame. Just look at playstation - they release HFW which has issues with the 60fps mode and loads of pop in in every mode (pop in is still there). Not nearly as bad as redfall in that department, but people complained, even though it's one of the best games of the year.

Meanwhile you have Xbox fans defending a piss poor game that should get at best 4/10. They will literally defend shitty output, they have no standards. That's a cultural / fundamental fan base difference that Xbox cornered themselves into.

 

[Nhomnhom]

This highlights a lot of what's wrong with Xbox, but their fanbase is also to blame. Just look at playstation - they release HFW which has issues with the 60fps mode and loads of pop in in every mode (pop in is still there). Not nearly as bad as redfall in that department, but people complained, even though it's one of the best games of the year.

Meanwhile you have Xbox fans defending a piss poor game that should get at best 4/10. They will literally defend shitty output, they have no standards. That's a cultural / fundamental fan base difference that Xbox cornered themselves into.

In retrospec HFW was judged way too harshly and didn't get the credit it deserved. People just assumed that it was the new standard but now more than a year later it is still on a league of it's despite being crossgen.

Even Forspoken deserved more credit and shouldn't be anywhere close to Redfall when it comes to rating or infamy.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Yeah, you don't win the console race with a single game. But how about releasing quality games every single year? A big game can be the turning point just like Uncharted 2 was for Sony on the 7th gen. What irks me the most about everything that Spencer said was the part where he said something along "We had mock reviews where Redfall scored 10 points more than current MC" MC was in the mid 60s I believe so...are you fine with releasing a game with MC score in the 70s????? Specially after you showed it left and right as your tentpole Xbox game???? Also charging 70 USD for it? Just change 30 USD and disguise it as Early Access. But they can't do that after they showed it as their showstopper.

Phil with his "releasing good games would not change anything" idea is like the Warner Bros.* CEO came out and said that there was no point in releasing good movies because 20th Century Fox* and Disney* are already releasing great movies, so there is no point in using that strategy to gain market share with the movie going audience.

*I picked random movie companies, for all I know they may have merged and their movies are no good anyway.

 

[Satoru]

In retrospec HFW was judged way too harshly and didn't get the credit it deserved. People just assumed that it was the new standard but now more than a year later it is still on a league of it's despite being crossgen.

Even Forspoken deserved more credit and shouldn't be anywhere close to Redfall when it comes to rating or infamy.

HFW was judged too harshly because its a Sony title. Even with (very small) technical issues, it's way more bug free than modern AAA releases, has got incredible graphics, sound design, gameplay... If Demon's Souls open world Re-Re-Remake wasn't released at around the same time it would have gotten way more recognition and likely better scores overall.

 

[Nhomnhom]

HFW was judged too harshly because its a Sony title. Even with (very small) technical issues, it's way more bug free than modern AAA releases, has got incredible graphics, sound design, gameplay... If Demon's Souls open world Re-Re-Remake wasn't released at around the same time it would have gotten way more recognition and likely better scores overall.

Well, Elden Ring is still a much better game despite it's flaws. No need to shit make it about HFW vs Elden Ring.

 

[Satoru]

Well, Elden Ring is still a much better game despite it's flaws. No need to shit make it about HFW vs Elden Ring.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Much better game:

• Last gen graphics
• 7th gen gameplay
• Worse open world
• Worse sound design
• Gameplay is not really comparable, so that's a neutral

Bar gameplay, which is subjective (and they are both in different genres), HFW is objectively the better game. As Souls games go, ER is probably the best of them but is also the most overhyped game in recent years, probably only surpassed by Zeld: Bore of the Wild, and is pretty much the exact same game they released since Demon's Souls with some QoL improvements (that make it the best souls game)

 

[Nhomnhom]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Much better game:

• Last gen graphics
• 7th gen gameplay
• Worse open world
• Worse sound design
• Gameplay is not really comparable, so that's a neutral

Bar gameplay, which is subjective (and they are both in different genres), HFW is objectively the better game. As Souls games go, ER is probably the best of them but is also the most overhyped game in recent years, probably only surpassed by Zeld: Bore of the Wild, and is pretty much the exact same game they released since Demon's Souls with some QoL improvements (that make it the best souls game)

A game quality is not measured by each individual part like that while disregarding other aspects, including gameplay. There is absolutely nothing objective about you thinking Horizon FW is the better game, it's absurd that you would even say that. If anything by more "objective" metrics, like being critically acclaimed and more renowned, then Elden Ring is the "objectively" superior game by a mile.

ER is far from being the best Souls game, at least for me. Just like HFW is far from being anywhere close to being Sony's best game. This obcession about pitting HFW vs Elden Ring does HFW no favors, just like comparing the original Horizon to BoTW didn't help it as well.

If you think that HFW is better than Elden Ring, fine, I'm not interested in trying to convince you.

 

[Satoru]

A game quality is not measured by each individual part like that and then disregarding other aspects, including gameplay. There is absolutely nothing objective about you thinking Horizon FW is the better game, it's absurd that you would even say that. If anything by more "objective" metrics like being critically acclaimed and more renowned then Elden Ring is the "objectively" superior game by a mile.

So graphics, world design, sound design, are subjective, but scores (the same ones that put Halo Infinite in the high 80s) are objective? Good to know. Halo Infinite is objectively pretty much as good as HFW. Zelda BOTW is objectively better than GoW:R

If you think that HFW is better than Elden Ring, fine, I'm not interested in trying to convince you.

Cool.