According to a Microsoft Brazil presentation, current Xbox Series S|X Sales are over 21M+

John Elden Ring

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Xbox Series X|S console sales are at 21M+ according to Microsoft at BIG Festival in Brazil.



While not openly, Microsoft has finally revealed global Xbox Series X|S sales figures directly for the first time since launch over 21 million.

This also means Xbox One total sales are about 58M maximum.

Nearly 50% of Series S users are new. No stats for Series X.
 

Bryank75

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About where we thought they were....

It has to be said the collective knowledge on this relatively new forum is sometimes incredible.
 
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Welfare

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For the record, my shipment estimates over on Install Base as of May 24 were

XB1: 56.9M
XBS: 21.3M (Q4 2022) / 22.5M (Q1 2023)

I initially had XB1 at +57M back in 2021 but since then I slowly brought it down. Guess I was wrong to do that.
 
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Gods&Monsters

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21 millions seems low and we know it cratered in 2023 so there's no momentum at all. Maybe 25 millions shipped by the end of the year.

How many 360 sold at this point in the gen?
 
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anonpuffs

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21 millions seems low and we know it cratered in 2023 so there's no momentum at all. Maybe 25 millions shipped by the end of the year.

How many 360 sold at this point in the gen?
25m shipped? They shipped 3.2m last year and sales are down double digit%, we also only have 6 months left. I think they'll be lucky to hit 24, my guess is 23.5m unless starfield is a megahit.
 
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Swift_Star

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Nobody I know has an Xbox and I know a lot of gamers. We Brazilians have ps consoles and switches. This is false.
 
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Cool hand luke

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Xbox is now officially above 20mil, which is impressive, nearly three years in. It may eclipse the original Xbox at the end of the year, in 60% of the time it took Xbox from 2000-2005.

Nyeeeeuuuu. Keep it up, lil slugger.
 

ethomaz

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That matches what I was saying @Welfare.

Below Xbox One launch aligned.
Around 20m shipped at end of 2022.

🤷‍♂️

Your estimates of end of 2022 will probably become true next quarter... 9 months after... that was how wrong you were.
Remember you had Series at 22+ million shipped at end of 2022 with SHOCKING near 4 million on shelves.
 

Welfare

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That matches what I was saying @Welfare.

Below Xbox One launch aligned.
Around 20m shipped at end of 2022.

🤷‍♂️

Your estimates of end of 2022 will probably become true next quarter... 9 months after... that was how wrong you were.
Remember you had Series at 22+ million shipped at end of 2022 with SHOCKING near 4 million on shelves.
🧢 You just posted in the last thread that up to November Xbox's best case scenario was 16M


Xbox sold 5M since November?

Oh and don't bother saying this is shipments and not sold through, the slide has a statistic that only pertains to sell through (new Series S owners). This is for developers, shipments would mean nothing to an install base they have to sell their games to.
 

Danja1187

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25m shipped? They shipped 3.2m last year and sales are down double digit%, we also only have 6 months left. I think they'll be lucky to hit 24, my guess is 23.5m unless starfield is a megahit.
If Starfield is good which critics will bend over backwards for it... It will definitely shift some units and I expect them to make Xtra aggressive this black Friday
 

ethomaz

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🧢 You just posted in the last thread that up to November Xbox's best case scenario was 16M


Xbox sold 5M since November?

Oh and don't bother saying this is shipments and not sold through, the slide has a statistic that only pertains to sell through (new Series S owners). This is for developers, shipments would mean nothing to an install base they have to sell their games to.
16m was sold thought… that means around 18m shipment… add December shipment.

Now compared with your weird numbers 🤷‍♂️

PS. 79+m combined pretty much confirms it is shipment.
 
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The one thing this proves is that @Heisenberg007 and I were right in our EOY '22 sold-through numbers for Series. It also proves Ampere's 20.5 million estimate was shipped, not sold-through.

FWIW, I pegged Series sold-through for EOY '22 to between 17-18 million. We can take MS's install base MAU data from the court proceedings and see that out of the 147 million PS4 + PS5 Sony shipped by EOY '22, 73% were active (as in they had active use of the systems through PS+, online-enabled games, etc.). Good reason to apply that same ratio to Xbox, which would mean 69 million shipped between XBO & Series by EOY '22.

Which does present a problem for this graph, because XBO #s are too high. So it's either Xbox has a notably lower percentage of active users compared to shipped systems, or Series shipments were well below all realistic estimates (we're talking you'd have to shift the 19 or so million down by 8 million!). Both can't simultaneously be true.

And WRT the 19 million shipped Series by EOY '22, we know some of that was with backed-up channels due to oversupply of Series S units (hence all the aggressive pricing discounts starting that summer to try shifting units), hence why I think sold-through was around 17-18 million, somewhere between there. Series has been tracking at OG Xbox levels for sold-through, OG Xbox did 6.2 million in its third year on the market. So being a bit north of 21 million at this point should be expected.

But yeah, something about those XBO numbers seems off. Those have to be shipped, meaning there must've been a lot left over once the system was discontinued.

For the record, my shipment estimates over on Install Base as of May 24 were

XB1: 56.9M
XBS: 21.3M (Q4 2022) / 22.5M (Q1 2023)

I initially had XB1 at +57M back in 2021 but since then I slowly brought it down. Guess I was wrong to do that.

Are you implying MS only shipped 1.2 million Xbox Series consoles over the past six months worldwide? That would mean they either massively overshipped Series consoles the year prior, or your shipments are wrong.

I find it a bit hard to believe MS over-shipped Xbox Series systems by such a large degree in the back half of 2022. That amount would've been enough for MS to shut down production for at least a quarter IMO to let old stock flush out. More likely, Series numbers of shipped were closer to the 20.5 million Ampere gave in their estimates earlier this year for EOY '22, and sold-through was closer to between 17-18 million.

And as for XBO, I'm just going to assume there were a lot of systems left in the distribution channels after discontinuation, but those could in large part be systems manufactured a few years prior, or others just in various warehouses sitting there. I genuinely think sold-through XBO numbers are a lot lower than 58 million otherwise Series sold-through numbers would've had to be even lower than 17 million by EOY '22.

FWIW I am also using MS's own provided global MAU totals between XBO/Series and PS4/PS5 they provided as evidence to the courts for the FTC trail. The latter were at 107 million out of a 147 million shipped, or 73% of total shipped. That same percentage for XBO/Series MAU (50 million) would mean shipped totals of 69 million by EOY '22.

So, assuming then their 79 million XBO/Series statement here is true, then MS's MAU ratio is lower than Sony's. Basically ~ 63% of all shipped XBO/Series systems contributing to the MAU there, vs 73% for Sony's MAU between PS4/PS5 (Sony's ecosystem having a more active userbase proportionally-speaking as well as in absolute terms, obviously).
 
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anonpuffs

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The one thing this proves is that @Heisenberg007 and I were right in our EOY '22 sold-through numbers for Series. It also proves Ampere's 20.5 million estimate was shipped, not sold-through.

FWIW, I pegged Series sold-through for EOY '22 to between 17-18 million. We can take MS's install base MAU data from the court proceedings and see that out of the 147 million PS4 + PS5 Sony shipped by EOY '22, 73% were active (as in they had active use of the systems through PS+, online-enabled games, etc.). Good reason to apply that same ratio to Xbox, which would mean 69 million shipped between XBO & Series by EOY '22.

Which does present a problem for this graph, because XBO #s are too high. So it's either Xbox has a notably lower percentage of active users compared to shipped systems, or Series shipments were well below all realistic estimates (we're talking you'd have to shift the 19 or so million down by 8 million!). Both can't simultaneously be true.

And WRT the 19 million shipped Series by EOY '22, we know some of that was with backed-up channels due to oversupply of Series S units (hence all the aggressive pricing discounts starting that summer to try shifting units), hence why I think sold-through was around 17-18 million, somewhere between there. Series has been tracking at OG Xbox levels for sold-through, OG Xbox did 6.2 million in its third year on the market. So being a bit north of 21 million at this point should be expected.

But yeah, something about those XBO numbers seems off. Those have to be shipped, meaning there must've been a lot left over once the system was discontinued.



Are you implying MS only shipped 1.2 million Xbox Series consoles over the past six months worldwide? That would mean they either massively overshipped Series consoles the year prior, or your shipments are wrong.

I find it a bit hard to believe MS over-shipped Xbox Series systems by such a large degree in the back half of 2022. That amount would've been enough for MS to shut down production for at least a quarter IMO to let old stock flush out. More likely, Series numbers of shipped were closer to the 20.5 million Ampere gave in their estimates earlier this year for EOY '22, and sold-through was closer to between 17-18 million.

And as for XBO, I'm just going to assume there were a lot of systems left in the distribution channels after discontinuation, but those could in large part be systems manufactured a few years prior, or others just in various warehouses sitting there. I genuinely think sold-through XBO numbers are a lot lower than 58 million otherwise Series sold-through numbers would've had to be even lower than 17 million by EOY '22.

FWIW I am also using MS's own provided global MAU totals between XBO/Series and PS4/PS5 they provided as evidence to the courts for the FTC trail. The latter were at 107 million out of a 147 million shipped, or 73% of total shipped. That same percentage for XBO/Series MAU (50 million) would mean shipped totals of 69 million by EOY '22.

So, assuming then their 79 million XBO/Series statement here is true, then MS's MAU ratio is lower than Sony's. Basically ~ 63% of all shipped XBO/Series systems contributing to the MAU there, vs 73% for Sony's MAU between PS4/PS5 (Sony's ecosystem having a more active userbase proportionally-speaking as well as in absolute terms, obviously).
Don't even try to talk the dude out of overestimating xbox numbers, he'll just point you to the same two amazon listings he claims as his sources for supply constraints
 

Welfare

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16m was sold thought… that means around 18m shipment… add December shipment.

Now compared with your weird numbers 🤷‍♂️

PS. 79+m combined pretty much confirms it is shipment.
16M was your best case, also I'm confused, what's your full 2022 estimate, because you argued Ampere's 18.5M sell through was too high before.

79M+ actually means sold through since it's the install base of Xbox consoles indie developers will sell their games to. You can't sell a game to a console stuck on store shelves!

Don't even try to talk the dude out of overestimating xbox numbers, he'll just point you to the same two amazon listings he claims as his sources for supply constraints
I debunked all of you with all 5 big US retailers get with the times.

Oh yeah remember when your first thought after hearing Phil say Series X supply increased you actually thought that somehow meant I was wrong? Fun times that was huh, thinking increasing supply didn't mean supply was lower before 😜
Are you implying MS only shipped 1.2 million Xbox Series consoles over the past six months worldwide? That would mean they either massively overshipped Series consoles the year prior, or your shipments are wrong.

I find it a bit hard to believe MS over-shipped Xbox Series systems by such a large degree in the back half of 2022. That amount would've been enough for MS to shut down production for at least a quarter IMO to let old stock flush out. More likely, Series numbers of shipped were closer to the 20.5 million Ampere gave in their estimates earlier this year for EOY '22, and sold-through was closer to between 17-18 million.

And as for XBO, I'm just going to assume there were a lot of systems left in the distribution channels after discontinuation, but those could in large part be systems manufactured a few years prior, or others just in various warehouses sitting there. I genuinely think sold-through XBO numbers are a lot lower than 58 million otherwise Series sold-through numbers would've had to be even lower than 17 million by EOY '22.

FWIW I am also using MS's own provided global MAU totals between XBO/Series and PS4/PS5 they provided as evidence to the courts for the FTC trail. The latter were at 107 million out of a 147 million shipped, or 73% of total shipped. That same percentage for XBO/Series MAU (50 million) would mean shipped totals of 69 million by EOY '22.

So, assuming then their 79 million XBO/Series statement here is true, then MS's MAU ratio is lower than Sony's. Basically ~ 63% of all shipped XBO/Series systems contributing to the MAU there, vs 73% for Sony's MAU between PS4/PS5 (Sony's ecosystem having a more active userbase proportionally-speaking as well as in absolute terms, obviously).
Your own logic would be that if you accept Ampere sell through, and assume shipments are already at +20M LTD 2022, then they shipped 1M or less in 6 months.

Are you saying you think the 21M is sell through or shipments?

Your 20.5M shipment at the end of 2022 then becomes +21M around June doesn't look wrong to you?

I'd have XBS shipping ~2M this year so far.

Xbox One sold through like 99.9% of everything it shipped by the end of 2020. The data we have for its sell through in the US for 2021 was 10K, and other regions it didn't register. All of that +58M was sold prior to 2021. One X and SAD were sold out mid 2020, and One S practically disappeared from store shelves in December.

Why would XB1 being higher means XBS is lower in sell through?
 
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Your own logic would be that if you accept Ampere sell through, and assume shipments are already at +20M LTD 2022, then they shipped 1M or less in 6 months.

Are you saying you think the 21M is sell through or shipments?

Your 20.5M shipment at the end of 2022 then becomes +21M around June doesn't look wrong to you?

I'd have XBS shipping ~2M this year so far.

Xbox One sold through like 99.9% of everything it shipped by the end of 2020. The data we have for its sell through in the US for 2021 was 10K, and other regions it didn't register. All of that +58M was sold prior to 2021. One X and SAD were sold out mid 2020, and One S practically disappeared from store shelves in December.

Why would XB1 being higher means XBS is lower in sell through?

You missed the part where I said Ampere's numbers were sold-in, not sold-through. It's my belief the 20.5 million they had for EOY '22 was sold-in, and we have enough data to prove that.

You yourself said Series were tracking at OG Xbox levels. Whether that's US or WW doesn't matter; we've seen trends in other big tracked markets where the numbers have been extremely soft to assume that could be applied WW. For its 3rd year on the market OG Xbox sold 6.2 million units. So if they're more recently around 21 million (let's say 21.5 million to be fair) for sold-through, are you suggesting they only sold 1 million units in all of the past six months? That's too low, even for Xbox.

Even shipping only ~2 million so far this year is somewhat soft, but that would be possible if they over-shipped last year. As for why I say XBS would be lower if XBO is over 50 million LTD, that's part to do with MS's own XBO + Series MAU totals for 2022 compared to Sony's. I mentioned this in my other comment; Sony's MAU of 107 million off a 147 million shipped total represents 73% saturation. Applying that percentage to XBO + Series MAU would suggest a shipped total of 69 million for both systems combined by EOY '22.

So, it's either the 79 million in that graphic is wrong, or XBS sold-through numbers are lower than 21 million (suggesting the number in the graph is shipped, not sold, which would also suggest a lot of systems in distribution channels that haven't been sold to customers yet), or Xbox's MAU saturation is lower than PlayStation's, at 63% vs. 73% (which is the only way both the MAU for Xbox is correct alongside the 79 million systems figure in the graphic).

Anyway I'm 100% willing to accept my XBO estimates were wrong; that's not really the pertinent part here for me. It's the Xbox Series numbers, and regardless if XBO had a LTD of 50 million or 58 million, Xbox Series could have only gotten between 17-18 million sold-through for EOY '22, and are currently tracking behind XBO launch-aligned. If the idea is that Ampere's estimates for EOY '22 were sold-through, that is actually much worst for Xbox Series because with this new info it'd mean they are tracking below even OG Xbox launch-aligned, and that would be miserable.

It'd also mean, should that pace continue, XBS would be lucky to get past 36 million LTD by the time this generation is over (1 million sold-through in six months doesn't suddenly balloon to 5 million sold-through in the last six months. We're talking more like 2 million if supply is good; you don't hit that low in numbers unless demand somewhat justifies it).

So basically...pick your poison :/
 
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Welfare

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You missed the part where I said Ampere's numbers were sold-in, not sold-through. It's my belief the 20.5 million they had for EOY '22 was sold-in, and we have enough data to prove that.

You yourself said Series were tracking at OG Xbox levels. Whether that's US or WW doesn't matter; we've seen trends in other big tracked markets where the numbers have been extremely soft to assume that could be applied WW. For its 3rd year on the market OG Xbox sold 6.2 million units. So if they're more recently around 21 million (let's say 21.5 million to be fair) for sold-through, are you suggesting they only sold 1 million units in all of the past six months? That's too low, even for Xbox.

Even shipping only ~2 million so far this year is somewhat soft, but that would be possible if they over-shipped last year. As for why I say XBS would be lower if XBO is over 50 million LTD, that's part to do with MS's own XBO + Series MAU totals for 2022 compared to Sony's. I mentioned this in my other comment; Sony's MAU of 107 million off a 147 million shipped total represents 73% saturation. Applying that percentage to XBO + Series MAU would suggest a shipped total of 69 million for both systems combined by EOY '22.

So, it's either the 79 million in that graphic is wrong, or XBS sold-through numbers are lower than 21 million (suggesting the number in the graph is shipped, not sold, which would also suggest a lot of systems in distribution channels that haven't been sold to customers yet), or Xbox's MAU saturation is lower than PlayStation's, at 63% vs. 73% (which is the only way both the MAU for Xbox is correct alongside the 79 million systems figure in the graphic).

Anyway I'm 100% willing to accept my XBO estimates were wrong; that's not really the pertinent part here for me. It's the Xbox Series numbers, and regardless if XBO had a LTD of 50 million or 58 million, Xbox Series could have only gotten between 17-18 million sold-through for EOY '22, and are currently tracking behind XBO launch-aligned. If the idea is that Ampere's estimates for EOY '22 were sold-through, that is actually much worst for Xbox Series because with this new info it'd mean they are tracking below even OG Xbox launch-aligned, and that would be miserable.

It'd also mean, should that pace continue, XBS would be lucky to get past 36 million LTD by the time this generation is over (1 million sold-through in six months doesn't suddenly balloon to 5 million sold-through in the last six months. We're talking more like 2 million if supply is good; you don't hit that low in numbers unless demand somewhat justifies it).

So basically...pick your poison :/
Dude, Ampere is not shipped. It's always been sold through. I don't remember if it was you or someone else on here but I've gone over this before. Also they had 18.5M for XBS at the end of 2022. Where'd you see 20.5M?

I think you misunderstood what I said back then. I said Xbox Series vs PS5 in the US was on the level of Xbox vs PS2 in Q1 2023. The gap being greater than 2:1 was what I referenced, not the total sales units. Xbox Series is tracking alongside Xbox One in unit to unit comparisons so far. If XBS were like Xbox in unit sales, PS5 would've been 3:1.

For the MAU argument, Xbox One sold 58M, of which a few million would've been One X repurchases. Of that number, it's possible a lot of the pandemic buyers for both XB1 and XBS stopped playing altogether. Then you're left with the XB1 only players, XBS new players, and XB1 turned XBS users. 48% of Series S owners are new and they don't tout a number like for the X, so that is probably significantly lower than 48%.

However, to that point, it's possible everything from Keystone is estimated and not actually official internal Xbox data. They could be wrong about the MAU, but then you can argue Microsoft find them accurate enough to present to regulators. But then you can further argue why isn't Microsoft supplementing their internal data for further accuracy.

Here's some math knowing XB1 is +58M (regardless of XBS, XB1 has sold through everything they shipped)

US LTD: 28.9M
WW LTD: +58M
US Ratio: <50%

Ampere 2022 XBS LTD: 18.5M
US 2022 LTD: I'd estimate it to be around 9.7M (~1M December)
US ratio: 52%

+21M x .52% = +10.9M

If the US share slightly changes to 51% over the past 6 months that's +10.7M. That would mean a US 2023 YTD of ~1M or slightly higher, and if this data is very recent, May or closer in June, that would fit perfectly.
 
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