For those that hate Sony, What made you feel the way you do about them?

[Swift_Star]

I have a buddy who has a 9700k and a 2080 ti that he got pretty cheap, before both next gen consoles came out, and before prices went up on both PC parts and consoles. He didn't have to upgrade his PC at all to play all the latest next gen games. As a matter of fact, he plays them at higher resolution, and higher frame rates to be exact. He more than likely won't upgrade till the next upcoming generation oc console release. So he can play any games from the 80's to all the future games.

I don't have a PC, I'd have to start from scratch and I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. The console is enough for my needs.

 

[Rivet]

I have a buddy who has a 9700k and a 2080 ti that he got pretty cheap, before both next gen consoles came out, and before prices went up on both PC parts and consoles. He didn't have to upgrade his PC at all to play all the latest next gen games. As a matter of fact, he plays them at higher resolution, and higher frame rates to be exact. He more than likely won't upgrade till the next upcoming generation oc console release. So he can play any games from the 80's to all the future games.

You don't have to upgrade every two years, like my example above. You don't have to tinker with any settings, I'm not sure why people think it's the early 90's still?? People who say this as an excuse almost 99% of the time, have never played on a gaming PC in their life. And the numerous people who have, know this excuse is outdated, and probably older than some posters here.


Factually speaking, there's PC's they came out before current Gen consoles, that have much better performance than a ps5/xsx. I don't get why some people hate to admit this. You might prefer 30 and 60 fps modes, limited to no raytracing, lower quality of details, more shimmering and aliasing, etc. But there's no way that is equal to the performance I started earlier. You may not NEED it, but it is a fact that it is superior hardware/performance. You can't say a 200hp car is superior to the 400hp variant of the same car, it would make no sense.

I know, I use Geforce experience too, it's just tinkering with settings is one of last upsides which are left on PC (with mods I'd say) since games run at dyn 4K / 60 fps / HDR on consoles anyway, which means you basically don't SEE any difference with PC versions in my opinion now. 95 % of people won't, if you see something that's worth a lot of money to you, I respect that, more power to you, but most people don't care going over 60 fps I can tell you. On the other hand, they won't get every AAA exclusive day one on PC, and they'll definitely care a lot more about that, I know I do.

Again, graphics are a function of budget / talent AND machine power, not machine power only. So :

1) On power side, consoles have a lot of hardware optimizations that you can't get on PC. Look at all the problems on PC with stuttering, all the problems with Direct X 12... You get none of that on consoles.

2) Budget and talents are mostly on consoles, even if you get later PC ports. Even if there was a major hardware difference (which there's not), it changes everything. Cyberpunk is maybe the only AAA example of a game focusing on PC... That's sad after so many years.

We won't agree on that and it's ok. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[PropellerEar]

Car B) is objectively better. It'll beat car A) in a race, offroad, in looks, comfort, etc.

Race/ofroad yes... looks are very subjective, comfort definitely not and reliability hell no, this just proves you never had a highly modified car.

 

[Deleted member 51]

I know, I use Geforce experience too, it's just tinkering with settings is one of last upsides which are left on PC (with mods I'd say) since games run at dyn 4K / 60 fps / HDR on consoles anyway, which means you basically don't SEE any difference with PC versions in my opinion now. 95 % of people won't, if you see something that's worth a lot of money to you, I respect that, more power to you, but most people don't care going over 60 fps I can tell you. On the other hand, they won't get every AAA exclusive day one on PC, and they'll definitely care a lot more about that, I know I do.

Again, graphics are a function of budget / talent AND machine power, not machine power only. So :

1) On power side, consoles have a lot of hardware optimizations that you can't get on PC. Look at all the problems on PC with stuttering, all the problems with Direct X 12... You get none of that on consoles.

2) Budget and talents are mostly on consoles, even if you get later PC ports. Even if there was a major hardware difference (which there's not), it changes everything. Cyberpunk is maybe the only AAA example of a game focusing on PC... That's sad after so many years.

We won't agree on that and it's ok. Let's agree to disagree.

I never mentioned anything about "most" people or anything like that. Simply, there is superior hardware and performance on PC side. It's as simple as that, nothing to contest the facts here.

Why do you and others think/believe that without Sony exclusives, there are no such thing as AAA gaming? That is the weirdest and most narcissistic thing to say. Did you know that you are part of a few percent of the players that ONLY play AAA games? That means you only have 2 games in rotation each year, if your lucky? I can't imagine playing the same, short single player game, and beating it over and over, each day. That sounds boring as hell honestly. But I'm pretty sure you don't just play AAA games...

Race/ofroad yes... looks are very subjective, comfort definitely not and reliability hell no, this just proves you never had a highly modified car.

I'm pretty sure using your own paint job/wrap will look better than any stock car, all day, everyday.

If I put better seats in the vehicle, and add in upgraded speakers, etc, why would that be less comfortable?

Being able to change out any part in a vehicle will definitely make it more reliable. Using the example of doing whatever you want, shows you can do exactly whatever you want to do. You can go balls to the wall on performance, keep it barely modified, etc. You clearly didn't understand the example if you think I have never had/currently have a few highly modified vehicles. And further more, if your highly modified vehicles are as horrible as you are implying, you honestly must have went to a hackjob shop, or didn't know what you were doing.

 

[PropellerEar]

I'm pretty sure using your own paint job/wrap will look better than any stock car, all day, everyday.

No, highly subjective.
If it pleases your eye, good for you.

If I put better seats in the vehicle, and add in upgraded speakers, etc, why would that be less comfortable?

Maybe, maybe not..
Race suspension and low profile tires, enjoy that comfort

Being able to change out any part in a vehicle will definitely make it more reliable.

This is called maintanance...
Twin turbos on a car that didn't have them before, makes it more reliable

Using the example of doing whatever you want, shows you can do exactly whatever you want to do. You can go balls to the wall on performance, keep it barely modified, etc. You clearly didn't understand the example if you think I have never had/currently have a few highly modified vehicles.

I understand your example, but it doesn't work the way you describe with cars...
Comfort and reliability goes out the window when you start going for extreme performance.

 

[Rivet]

I never mentioned anything about "most" people or anything like that. Simply, there is superior hardware and performance on PC side. It's as simple as that, nothing to contest the facts here.

Why do you and others think/believe that without Sony exclusives, there are no such thing as AAA gaming? That is the weirdest and most narcissistic thing to say. Did you know that you are part of a few percent of the players that ONLY play AAA games? That means you only have 2 games in rotation each year, if your lucky? I can't imagine playing the same, short single player game, and beating it over and over, each day. That sounds boring as hell honestly. But I'm pretty sure you don't just play AAA games...

Ok so if it's only for bragging rights and theorical flops / on paper specs, then maybe it will be nice for some people, maybe you need to tell you that for personal confidence I don't know ("wow, my PC is so powerful on paper"), but I'm too old to spend thousands of $ for that then look at everybody else getting the best graphics day one on PS5 anyway because after all that's where the best artists and biggest budgets are, which is what matters ultimately for technical achievements. Nobody cares about theorical flops / what the power could be if someone used it or if my aunt was my uncle. What matters is what you can actually play and how it really looks.

What other AAA are on the level of Sony exclusives these days ? The latest Ubisoft game ? The latest EA / 2K sports game (where you don't even get the current gen version on PC anyway, even these days) ? GTA 6 we've been waiting for 10 years ? Give me a break. Technically there's none, the few ones still releasing look one gen behind Horizon FW technically and it won't get better. Nobody makes good looking AAA games anymore these days. Maybe Cyperpunk, but it's like 1 game every 5 years from CDPR. Great. Look at 2018 God of War, it's the #2 rated game on Steam while releasing 4 years later on PC... That says it all. And even if there were more great looking AAA games, like I said they would look and play the same on PC and on current consoles. Diminishing returns have killed the need for beefy PCs long ago. Everybody plays in 60 fps with great graphics these days.

Of course I don't play only AAA games, I told you I love my PC for indies (though I can play those ones on consoles too) or strategy games (better played on PC due to mouse / KB), but I absolutely don't need a Geforce 4090 Ti to play those games...

 

[Deleted member 51]

No, highly subjective.
If it pleases your eye, good for you.

Maybe, maybe not..
Race suspension and low profile tires, enjoy that comfort

This is called maintanance...
Twin turbos on a car that didn't have them before, makes it more reliable

I understand your example, but it doesn't work the way you describe with cars...
Comfort and reliability goes out the window when you start going for extreme performance.

But that's what I mean though, you'll have whatever you want. If I wanna build for budget, I will have to sacrifice things depending on budget. If I want to build balls to the wall, I can do just that with no compromises.

And this isn't to say consoles are bad. I'm simply saying, if you want superior image quality or better performance, in the same game between PC and consoles, PC will win because the options are endless.

Once people get over this fact, discussions would be so much better between Sony only players, and the PC crowd. Well actually, all gamers to be honest. This is the only group of warriors to constantly double down against PC players, and the forums will prosper once people can finally grasp the fact, when the ps5 games start rolling out for PC, with upgraded raytracing, physics, textures, resolutions, etc.

If people want more performance, PC will be an option.

 

[Deleted member 51]

Ok so if it's only for bragging rights and theorical flops / on paper specs, then maybe it will be nice for some people, maybe you need to tell you that for personal confidence I don't know ("wow, my PC is so powerful on paper"), but I'm too old to spend thousands of $ for that then look at everybody else getting the best graphics day one on PS5 anyway because after all that's where the best artists and biggest budgets are, which is what matters ultimately for technical achievements. Nobody cares about theorical flops / what the power could be if someone used it or if my aunt was my uncle. What matters is what you can actually play and how it really looks.

What other AAA are on the level of Sony exclusives these days ? The latest Ubisoft game ? The latest EA / 2K sports game (where you don't even get the current gen version on PC anyway, even these days) ? GTA 6 we've been waiting for 10 years ? Give me a break. Technically there's none, the few ones still releasing look one gen behind Horizon FW technically and it won't get better. Nobody makes good looking AAA games anymore these days. Maybe Cyperpunk, but it's like 1 game every 5 years from CDPR. Great. Look at 2018 God of War, it's the #2 rated game on Steam while releasing 4 years later on PC... That says it all. And even if there were more great looking AAA games, like I said they would look and play the same on PC and on current consoles. Diminishing returns have killed the need for beefy PCs long ago. Everybody plays in 60 fps with great graphics these days.

Of course I don't play only AAA games, I told you I love my PC for indies (though I can play those ones on consoles too) or strategy games, but I absolutely don't need a Geforce 4090 Ti to play those games...

I've seen you bring up cyberpunk several times now. You do realize the difference is startling in comparison to the PC version. Spiderman will also show this difference, as well as well of the upcoming games coming to PC. Regardless if you can't tell the difference between 30 fps @ faux 4k, or 144 fps @ true 4k, it exists, and many people can easily tell the differences. Consoles are perfect for you, as you don't care about so much performance that is left under the table. On the other hand, I want the best gaming experience for me, as I love keeping my frames high, and my temps low.

 

[Dr Bass]

But that's what I mean though, you'll have whatever you want. If I wanna build for budget, I will have to sacrifice things depending on budget. If I want to build balls to the wall, I can do just that with no compromises.

And this isn't to say consoles are bad. I'm simply saying, if you want superior image quality or better performance, in the same game between PC and consoles, PC will win because the options are endless.

Once people get over this fact, discussions would be so much better between Sony only players, and the PC crowd. Well actually, all gamers to be honest. This is the only group of warriors to constantly double down against PC players, and the forums will prosper once people can finally grasp the fact, when the ps5 games start rolling out for PC, with upgraded raytracing, physics, textures, resolutions, etc.

If people want more performance, PC will be an option.

This is so uncontroversial I can't believe it's even a thing. And yeah, it does seem like it's mostly Sony-only players who have trouble admitting that PCs definitely have the superior graphics if you're willing to spend.

Again, how is that controversial? In fact, isn't that the new fear with the PC releases? That the PS will no longer be the "best place to play" because games that were exclusive aren't anymore? Can't really have it both ways, that PS is best, but the more expensive PC ecosystem poses a threat.

None of this is even worth discussing, because it's not a debate.

 

[Deleted member 51]

This is so uncontroversial I can't believe it's even a thing. And yeah, it does seem like it's mostly Sony-only players who have trouble admitting that PCs definitely have the superior graphics if you're willing to spend.

Again, how is that controversial? In fact, isn't that the new fear with the PC releases? That the PS will no longer be the "best place to play" because games that were exclusive aren't anymore? Can't really have it both ways, that PS is best, but the more expensive PC ecosystem poses a threat.

None of this is even worth discussing, because it's not a debate.

And that's the thing. I just want some of these guys to finally admit that. It's not like I'm trashing their platform of choice. I just would love for them to be honest with themselves, take off the rose tinted shades. I never come here to shit on console players, and I wouldn't have even replied to this thread if it weren't for the same people going around and shitting on PC, as usual.

But once a warrior, always a warrior?

 

[RE4-City]

This is so uncontroversial I can't believe it's even a thing. And yeah, it does seem like it's mostly Sony-only players who have trouble admitting that PCs definitely have the superior graphics if you're willing to spend.

Again, how is that controversial? In fact, isn't that the new fear with the PC releases? That the PS will no longer be the "best place to play" because games that were exclusive aren't anymore? Can't really have it both ways, that PS is best, but the more expensive PC ecosystem poses a threat.

None of this is even worth discussing, because it's not a debate.

It happened on both sides. 5 Years ago when Xbox One X released I saw xbox youtubers claiming that xbox one x was better than any pc you can buy which was not true. Maybe you can make the argument that when these consoles release they are more powerful than any prebuilt or even any pc you can build for the same price but if you spend $5000 on a PC it of course will outperform anything else. I wonder if anyone want to go back 20 years ago and se if nintendo fans said the same for the gamecube when it first released

 

[Rivet]

I've seen you bring up cyberpunk several times now. You do realize the difference is startling in comparison to the PC version. Spiderman will also show this difference, as well as well of the upcoming games coming to PC. Regardless if you can't tell the difference between 30 fps @ faux 4k, or 144 fps @ true 4k, it exists, and many people can easily tell the differences. Consoles are perfect for you, as you don't care about so much performance that is left under the table. On the other hand, I want the best gaming experience for me, as I love keeping my frames high, and my temps low.

It was an old gen version running on next gen consoles so of course difference was visible on Cyberpunk. That's my point, that's basically the only exception. And that's only because devs were PC devs and didn't give a shit about PS5 / XSX until recently when they patched it. Usually that's the opposite, most devs don't give a shit about PC, hence the infamous stuttering / directx 12 woes for example.

My point is diminishing returns made any difference far too meaningless. You have a very hard time telling which version is which nowadays. But if you somehow think there's a big enough difference for you, I respect that.

 

[Dr Bass]

It happened on both sides. 5 Years ago when Xbox One X released I saw xbox youtubers claiming that xbox one x was better than any pc you can buy which was not true. Maybe you can make the argument that when these consoles release they are more powerful than any prebuilt or even any pc you can build for the same price but if you spend $5000 on a PC it of course will outperform anything else. I wonder if anyone want to go back 20 years ago and se if nintendo fans said the same for the gamecube when it first released

The best thing about the consoles is the ease of use and value for money, of course. I don't think you can get an equivalent PC for 500 bucks in terms of CPU/GPU, included controller, and form factor. They just aren't made that way. And you don't have to spend 5000 dollars. Maybe like 1500-2000 gets you something pretty slamming.

I'm sure the Gamecube for 200 or 300 or whatever it was, was a hell of a deal back then too.

Funny, these discussions happen on music boards too. There are basses you can get that are way, way, over 10,000 dollars. You can also get ones for a couple hundred. Some people swear by the more expensive ones, and some will swear they are a waste of money.

I think letting people play where they like and being chill about it is the best option.

It was an old gen version running on next gen consoles so of course difference was visible on Cyberpunk. That's my point, that's basically the only exception. And that's only because devs were PC devs and didn't give a shit about PS5 / XSX until recently when they patched it. Usually that's the opposite, most devs don't give a shit about PC, hence the infamous stuttering / directx 12 woes for example.

My point is diminishing returns made any difference far too meaningless. You have a very hard time telling which version is which nowadays. But if you somehow think there's a big enough difference for you, I respect that.

I don't think "diminishing returns" is a thing really. If you saw a PC version of a game on a 3090 or whatever next to any console, you're going to see a huge difference in frame rate and resolution. Whether or not you care about that, is one thing. Denying that it's there? That's something else.

 

[PropellerEar]

But that's what I mean though, you'll have whatever you want. If I wanna build for budget, I will have to sacrifice things depending on budget. If I want to build balls to the wall, I can do just that with no compromises.

Car analogy just doesn't work, but I get your point..

And this isn't to say consoles are bad. I'm simply saying, if you want superior image quality or better performance, in the same game between PC and consoles, PC will win because the options are endless.

Not really, if the game isn't on PC then you're out of luck.

Once people get over this fact, discussions would be so much better between Sony only players, and the PC crowd.

There is no fact to get over, I've gamed on consoles(since 80s) and PC(since early 90s)
Console is currently the better experience for me, but it has not always been the case.

Well actually, all gamers to be honest. This is the only group of warriors to constantly double down against PC players, and the forums will prosper once people can finally grasp the fact, when the ps5 games start rolling out for PC, with upgraded raytracing, physics, textures, resolutions, etc.

You can wait that is a good experience to have, btw. Spider-man will come out this Friday on PC with upgraded graphics options, I played it 2018 and I have no intention to replay it.

If people want more performance, PC will be an option.

Yes, who said it isn't.

 

[ethomaz]

We are talking about cars now?

Man I love that we have more Xbox fans joining… it is way more fun with different takes.

 

[PropellerEar]

We are talking about cars now?

I think that analogy is dead.
We have a dream car thread in the cantina for car talk.

 

[DynamiteCop]

I'm not talking to the permabanned fanboy from GS System Wars. Keep ignored. You have no place in this conversation. Bye.

You have no place anywhere because you're absolutely terrible at debate, you run away. When your go to is to deflect and introduce genetic fallacy you might as well just log out.

 

[Deleted member 51]

It was an old gen version running on next gen consoles so of course difference was visible on Cyberpunk. That's my point, that's basically the only exception. And that's only because devs were PC devs and didn't give a shit about PS5 / XSX until recently when they patched it. Usually that's the opposite, most devs don't give a shit about PC, hence the infamous stuttering / directx 12 woes for example.

My point is diminishing returns made any difference far too meaningless. You have a very hard time telling which version is which nowadays. But if you somehow think there's a big enough difference for you, I respect that.

But I'm specifically talking about the patched version of cyberpunk vs day one on PC. If 3rd party devs have their games looking the best on PC, and even Sony devs make their games look best on PC... Don't you think there's a common denominator when it comes to that?


If you could have a ps5 or a ps5 pro, which would you choose? Your essentially saying you can't tell the difference, so would you want the better version of the console, or would it be the same, "I can't tell the difference to spend more money" excuse?

 

[Rivet]

I don't think "diminishing returns" is a thing really. If you saw a PC version of a game on a 3090 or whatever next to any console, you're going to see a huge difference in frame rate and resolution. Whether or not you care about that, is one thing. Denying that it's there? That's something else.

You can't think diminishing returns aren't a thing for the same reason you can't say rain isn't wet.

Diminishing returns have factually been here from day 1. I started with Atari VCS2600. Compare VCS2600 games graphics to CBS Collecovision (the model just after) graphics. Huge difference. Now compare a current gen console game with its PC version. Very small difference, especially comparatively. Magnitudes lower. That's what diminishing returns are. It's not up to debate. It's a fact returns are diminishing. Now if we get quantic computers or a major breakthrough like that, we can still get a step forward, but overall returns are always diminishing.

I know what 3090 games are, I play on PC regularly (mine and my friends PCs), there's no meaningful difference. Current gen consoles run games at dynamic 4K / HDR / 60 fps. It looks and plays exactly the same on PC for 95 % of people. If you're in the 5 % who think it still matters and still see a difference, fine.

Just be aware it will be worse and worse from generation to generation with diminishing returns, until you won't be able to tell the difference at all

 

[Dr Bass]

You can't think "diminishing returns" aren't a thing for the same reason you can't say rain isn't wet.

Diminishing returns have factually been here from day 1. I started with Atari VCS2600. Compare VCS2600 games graphics to CBS Collecovision (the model just after) graphics. Huge difference. Now compare a current gen console game with its PC version. Very small difference, especially comparatively. Magnitudes lower. That's what diminishing returns are. It's not up to debate. It's a fact returns are diminishing. Now if we get quantic computers or a major breakthrough like that, we can still get a step forward, but overall returns are always diminishing.

I know what 3090 games are, I play on PC regularly (mine and my friends PCs), there's no meaningful difference. Current gen consoles run games at dynamic 4K / HDR / 60 fps. It looks and plays exactly the same on PC for 95 % of people. If you're in the 5 % who think it still matters and still see a difference, fine.

Just be aware it will be worse and worse from generation to generation with diminishing returns, until you won't be able to tell the difference at all

I started on Atari too. I was a little guy, but I did start there. I don't think when someone starts is necessarily synonymous with expertise or ability. A lot of ten year old tennis juniors kick the out of adults who have been playing their whole lives. Same with music.

I also know what diminishing returns are. I'm a software guy with a decent amount of experience. I've programmed realtime graphics and offline renderers.

In this case I just don't agree that PC cards deliver "diminishing returns." We've already seen heavy compromise on PS5 with games like HFW and most likely the upcoming GoW. You can pick frame rate or resolution. On PC those games will be able to have both and be able to drive beyond what the consoles are doing in terms of effects and image quality settings. I agree, a LOT of people won't be able to "tell the difference." It's why graphics kinda don't matter to the degree some enthusiasts wish it did (which is why Switch can dominate). But people also put ketchup on steaks. So going by what people "think" or perceive on a mass scale just doesn't matter to me.

Remember, I don't play on PC. I prefer consoles by a huge margin, because of their ease of use and convenience. But I mean ... come on ... they just don't hold a candle to PC performance at the top end. They simply don't. I used to have that stuff as well and it's just not close IMO at all. But FOR ME, the juice also wasn't worth the squeeze so ...

We are a bit off topic and I am confused as to why this is even a discussion. It's like a dude with a Lexus IS insisting his car is nearly as good as a Ferrari. Oops. More car analogies.