NPD December 2022 (PS5 #1 Revenue, Switch #1 Units, Xbox @ $200 Forever #3, Leaked LTD up to Nov 2022: 10.6m PS5 / 8.7m Xbox)

twinspectre

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you really have to wonder if they can keep up producing the series X model. it just isn't selling enough units, its a complete niche product.

XBox seems to only be pushing the series S across all regions. I scrolled their twitter feed and you won't even find the Series X listed once.












The PS5 has completely positioned MS out of the core games market. their future is a low-spec budget model with free games via gamepass.

now you see why xbox never release any mature, graphically intensive games.

series X is toast. it may very be discontinued this year.

Nobody in the market is focused to the Core gamers, maybe the only one is From Software.
If they were focused to the core gamers, then games shouldn't have dumbed down gameplay for the lowest common denominator, shouldn't have handholding, shouldn't have auto regenerative health.
What has "BLOOD" to do with hardcore gaming? what has RATED M to do with core gaming? what has color to do with core gaming?
80s and early 90s gaming were colorful and their target were children, and yet the game was hard and didn't had dumbed down gameplay and didn't had handholding so it was difficult for casual gamers to enjoy these games.
PlayStation had an hardcore multiplayer game that most of you didn't played, but y'all wanted to play the king of casual Call of Duty.
 
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Dabaus

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To compound all the other issues Xbox is having, lower than expected market share, getting outsold with firesale deals, first party pipeline in shambles etc etc:

The issue I’m seeing is the fact MS has conditioned their core audience that buying games is bad and to wait for gamepass stuff. So not only are they selling worse than expected in their best territory, their fans aren’t even buying software in a way that should align to Xbox installed base. How is Microsoft making money if software isn’t selling and bleeding money on hardware? Why are they even doing this ?
 

Dr Bass

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Nobody in the market is focused to the Core gamers, maybe the only one is From Software.
If they were focused to the core gamers, then games shouldn't have dumbed down gameplay for the lowest common denominator, shouldn't have handholding, shouldn't have auto regenerative health.
What has "BLOOD" to do with hardcore gaming? what has RATED M to do with core gaming? what has color to do with core gaming?
80s and early 90s gaming were colorful and their target were children, and yet the game was hard and didn't had dumbed down gameplay and didn't had handholding so it was difficult for casual gamers to enjoy these games.
PlayStation had an hardcore multiplayer game that most of you didn't played, but y'all wanted to play the king of casual Call of Duty.
Hmm which Sony and Nintendo games have auto regenerative health?
 

Dr Bass

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To compound all the other issues Xbox is having, lower than expected market share, getting outsold with firesale deals, first party pipeline in shambles etc etc:

The issue I’m seeing is the fact MS has conditioned their core audience that buying games is bad and to wait for gamepass stuff. So not only are they selling worse than expected in their best territory, their fans aren’t even buying software in a way that should align to Xbox installed base. How is Microsoft making money if software isn’t selling and bleeding money on hardware? Why are they even doing this ?
These are things that myself and others said would happen the day game pass was announced. The Xbox only clowns laughed at the idea.

Look who ended up being 100% right?
 
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peter42O

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The thing about Jan - May is we don't have actual numbers to show how big (or small) the gap for Xbox was over PS5 in those months. We can roughly assume what April's numbers were because if sources are to be believed April 2022 was Xbox's best month ever in unit and dollar sales; they had the unit record previously with 360 (~450K) and dollars record with XBO (although in that month I think they were outsold by PS4). However, without knowing PS5's numbers for that month there isn't much we can do.

Regardless, I think the numbers in that tweet are a bit damning for MS/Xbox for two reasons. One, it shows that PS5's been increasing its sales gap over Xbox every month since June of last year; we already know they outsold Xbox for December according to NPD in unit & dollar sales, the question is how big was the gap. If the trend established so far is anything and if December is anything like November, then December was a bloodbath for Xbox, in its strongest territory no less.

The other, more poignant thing it reinforces is the likely global sales gap which, and I've been saying this for a while personally, is probably bigger than some want to think. US & UK combined account traditionally for at least 60% of Xbox's total global sales (the 360 for example, the ratio was even higher IIRC b/c US got it to 47 million and then you add UK on top of that (8.4 million from a quick search), accounts for a larger percentage (over 65% of 360's global sales were in just US & UK markets). So if U.S sold-through LTD by end of the 2022 was 8.736 million, and (being generous here; I couldn't find 2022 Series sales numbers for UK) UK being at 3 million (Series reportedly reached 1 million by end of 2021 some I'm literally throwing them 2 million in one year here), then combined they would account for 11.736 million units. Assuming the 60/40 ratio holds true, then global Xbox Series sales by end of 2022 would be at just 16.4 million sold-through, maybe just shy of 17 million throwing in 500K for non-US/UK ROTW 2020.

In other words, it'd mean at least as of the start of this year, Xbox Series would have been trending behind XBO (reached 18 million by its 26th month), and that should be VERY worrying for fans of the brand and is probably a point of concern for Microsoft as well. After all, they have all the data, but there's a reason they aren't putting out certain PR statements relating to sales. Not even in relation of Series compared to 360 & XBO. If we get no such statements at the investor's call, then it's just going to solidify the estimates being stated here.

The bigger issue then is, how much is due to lack of supply and how much is simply due to lack of demand? Because if I'm being honest, amongst the whole market, it would be a mix of both. But what does that mix look like? Supply is always theoretically easier to fix than demand issues, but I think Xbox's issues are mostly stemming from lowered demand. People's gaming time is limited and between PC (Steam), PlayStation 4/5 and Switch, what is Xbox Series really bringing to the table that clearly stands out as unique and of value compared to other options, for the majority of the market?

At the very least, MS should start prioritizing Series X availability in US & UK and, more importantly, promote the damn thing. All their marketing has centered on Series S & Game Pass but that is clearly not having a resonating effect with most would-be customers, otherwise their numbers would be better. So it's time to shift, and if they finally start getting some big content coming regularly, they can at the very least stave off losing any further market share to PlayStation in US & UK, but it is absolutely not going to be easy and I don't see RedFall, Forza or even Starfield being enough.

I agree with you for the most part but Xbox isn't going to be equal to or surpass PlayStation in sales. The brand name and power is just way too strong. Then you add in no first party exclusive games from Microsoft for the majority of this generation and the fact that they're still rebuilding and getting everything in order after last generation, for them to just stay close will be huge. My prediction from 2020 and this is before Bethesda and potentially ABK, that Xbox will lead in NA once the generation ends and cut the 2 to 1 sales difference from last generation to 1.5 to 1 this generation.

The first half of this generation was always going to belong to Sony and PlayStation. Their studios were simply far more ahead in their development cycles and far more organized and ready. The second half is where I believe you'll see things be a lot closer than what they are.

The reason why Microsoft has focused on Series S is for a few reasons - availability for Series X is low due to production and manufacturing. Second, Microsoft knows that Xbox will be secondary at best for the vast majority of consumers and in some instances, third. You go with the cheaper option and push Game Pass because this is their best exclusive so to speak. Third, until they start releasing first party games on a consistent basis, there's no reason to push Series X because it's the same price but PlayStation has the brand name and power.

We're only two years into the generation with at least six more years to go. We have a long way to go. Outside of NA, Microsoft just needs to close the gaps and I believe they will as the generation progresses but right now, there's nothing there to entice consumers to jump in. Like I have said before, im giving Microsoft the entire generation to show me that they're getting better. I'm not going to judge them until the generation is completed.

Also, Microsoft has PC day one, cloud streaming and eventually a TV app/device before the generation ends which will decrease console sales because as important as console sales are, it's not the most important. The platform and eco-system is far more important and is what they truly need to build up because console versus console isn't going to work. But we'll see how it all plays out. For me personally, I just want them to deliver great games and I'll be very happy Xbox gamer.
 
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peter42O

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I have the feeling MS will increase the X price and continue with deals around $200 for S.

I don't see them raising the prices of Xbox Series. I do believe that Game Pass Ultimate will increase to $18, maybe $20 in price while the base at $10 stays as is. Plus, if Sony releases the $400 Digital PS5 revision, I can't see Microsoft staying at $500. Vast majority are digital only and having a PS5 being $100 less than XSX will not be good for Microsoft or Xbox.
 

twinspectre

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Hmm which Sony and Nintendo games have auto regenerative health?
Uncharted has auto regenerative health, Splatoon has auto regenerative health,Gears has auto regenerative health.
As you can see All three + third parties makes some games that are NOT hardcore gaming.
 

Bodycount611

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I have the feeling MS will increase the X price and continue with deals around $200 for S.
The X isn't selling at all. The xbox brand has been positioned out of the core games market by Sony.

MS has no choice but to aim for the family/value crowd. which is a double-edged sword, because in that market they'll find Nintendo, who they really can't compete with.

it's not looking good. no wonder they've turned more towards the PC market. that's the only avenue left for them.

Unfortunately, the market is at a point where it has consolidated.

Sony vacated the handheld space because they couldn't compete with nintendo. Nintendo sacrificed the console portion of their business to leverage the handheld success and in a stroke of genius, the hybrid model was born. Nintendo struck lightning in a bottle. in a way, both nintendo and sony cleared out of eachother's way.

Xbox, on the other hand, is being totally squeezed out. There's just no space in the market for them. The traditional console customer is much better served with a PS5 which has actual exclusives, AAA 1st party games, and complete 3rd party support.

Xbox is... over, sorry to say.
 

twinspectre

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The X isn't selling at all. The xbox brand has been positioned out of the core games market by Sony.

MS has no choice but to aim for the family/value crowd. which is a double-edged sword, because in that market they'll find Nintendo, who they really can't compete with.

it's not looking good. no wonder they've turned more towards the PC market.

Xbox is being totally squeezed out.
How can you say PlayStation is core games?
Please, explain it to me, because I'm missing something here. What is core gaming? why PlayStation is core and the other are casual, enlight me.
EDIT: "PS5 which has actual exclusives" WHAT? if you want talk about exclusives then Nintendo is the only one with TRUE exclusives.
 
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Bodycount611

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How can you say PlayStation is core games?
Please, explain it to me, because I'm missing something here. What is core gaming? why PlayStation is core and the other are casual, enlight me.
When consumers go out to buy one of these systems they're faced with a choice.

PS5:

-A single, universal best-in-class hardware configuration. Everyone who buys a PS5 has access to the same hardware spec. This leads to the next point:
-Mature, AAA, graphically intensive games and SP 'core' games.
-Exclusive games which are considered best in class (sony 1st party and others).
-Complete 3rd party support with legacy brands like Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, and soon Metal Gear Solid, all exclusive.
-core genres with a high skill barrier to entry I.e fighting games, JRPGs, etc. have consolidated around the PS5.

Xbox:

-Main SKU is a underpowered, digital-only unit that emphasizes games subsidization (Gamepass) for value.
-No graphically intensive, mature games. Emphasis is on universal appeal games like fortnite, rocket league, sea of thieves, peppa pig, etc. (kid-friendly is the focus).
-No gaming heritage brands, no exclusive games, and industry award winners that 'core' gaming consumers look for.
-MS 1st party is universally derided as low-quality and at best, inconsistent.
 
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Gods&Monsters

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Nobody in the market is focused to the Core gamers, maybe the only one is From Software.
If they were focused to the core gamers, then games shouldn't have dumbed down gameplay for the lowest common denominator, shouldn't have handholding, shouldn't have auto regenerative health.
What has "BLOOD" to do with hardcore gaming? what has RATED M to do with core gaming? what has color to do with core gaming?
80s and early 90s gaming were colorful and their target were children, and yet the game was hard and didn't had dumbed down gameplay and didn't had handholding so it was difficult for casual gamers to enjoy these games.
PlayStation had an hardcore multiplayer game that most of you didn't played, but y'all wanted to play the king of casual Call of Duty.
I don't understand the point of this post and why @adamsapple agrees with it? Most From fans are on Playstation and they sell most of their games on Playstation so that's another fail.

Complaining about regenerative health in a sales thread is making my head spin. That explains the bad Xbox sales in the universe you come from?
 

Gediminas

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When consumers go out to buy one of these systems they're faced with a choice.

PS5:

-A single, universal best-in-class hardware configuration. Everyone who buys a PS5 has access to the same hardware spec. This leads to the next point:
-Mature, AAA, graphically intensive games and SP 'core' games.
-Exclusive games which are considered best in class (sony 1st party and others).
-Complete 3rd party support with legacy brands like Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, and soon Metal Gear Solid, all exclusive.
-core genres with a high skill barrier to entry I.e fighting games, JRPGs, etc. have consolidated around the PS5.

Xbox:

-Main SKU is a underpowered, digital-only unit that emphasizes games subsidization (Gamepass) for value.
-No graphically intensive, mature games. Emphasis is on universal appeal games like fortnite, rocket league, sea of thieves, peppa pig, etc. (kid-friendly is the focus).
-No gaming heritage brands, no exclusive games, and industry award winners that 'core' gaming consumers look for.
-MS 1st party is universally derided as low-quality and at best, inconsistent.
i would add High End PSVR2
 
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I agree with you for the most part but Xbox isn't going to be equal to or surpass PlayStation in sales. The brand name and power is just way too strong. Then you add in no first party exclusive games from Microsoft for the majority of this generation and the fact that they're still rebuilding and getting everything in order after last generation, for them to just stay close will be huge. My prediction from 2020 and this is before Bethesda and potentially ABK, that Xbox will lead in NA once the generation ends and cut the 2 to 1 sales difference from last generation to 1.5 to 1 this generation.

But how does MS cut the 2:1 difference to a 1.5:1 difference if PS is gaining over them in not just ROTW markets, but also the UK and even the US? Do you really thing the appeal of games like Starfield in GP will make the difference?

Because I can say this right now: even if/when MS get approved for ABK, they aren't putting new COD games into Game Pass Day 1. They simply aren't going to keep subsidizing money for the Xbox division that much going forward, and they aren't going to cut the legs of COD's revenue potential through direct sales by putting it Day 1 in a service with various cheap loopholes available that drive down the ARPU.

The first half of this generation was always going to belong to Sony and PlayStation. Their studios were simply far more ahead in their development cycles and far more organized and ready. The second half is where I believe you'll see things be a lot closer than what they are.

But here's the thing: at one point, MS actually did have a lot of favorable mindshare. When they revealed Series X at TGAs 2019, it was a success. Sony came out with a PS5 logo and got laughed at. Even after Sony fully revealed the PS5 in March 2020 (aside from how it looked), mind share for Series X held pretty well.

Then May 2020 happened. The combination of that "gameplay" showcase, then the PS5 UE5 demo coming right after, was probably the first big mistake for MS leading into this gen. Halo Infinite's mediocre showcase the following June was another blow, then afterwards revealing the Series S because IMO, they started confusing their messaging. You can't argue you have both the most powerful and cheapest console on the market if they're two different consoles and the former isn't demonstrating its supposed power.

Since then all of their messaging & marketing has basically veered towards Series S and Game Pass; I think if MS either made Series S what Project Keystone was set to be, and/or just forwent Series S altogether to focus on Series X and pushing its power, they'd of probably actually been holding well in the US or even be slightly ahead of PS5 in NA. Particularly because 2021 was, in honesty, a bit of a "light" year for PS5 exclusives, meanwhile MS had both Forza & Halo releasing, plus some notable Day 1 Game Pass games.

If there was any year where MS could have actually gained a lead on PlayStation, at least in US & UK, it was 2021, if we're talking anything not having to do with outside factors like supply constraints and supply inflation increases. But I think MS missed their chance and now they aren't getting another. What really changes for MS from 2024-onward vs. now? Yes they will have more big games but so will PlayStation, and Sony will likely have more of them. PS5 will be even stronger of a market performer by then than they are right now, so for whatever gains Xbox makes, they won't be enough (most likely) to keep full pace let alone start closing the gap.

Because, again, there's also ROTW and outside of US & UK, PS tends to vastly outperform Xbox. US & UK were at least 65% of 360's market share. It was close to similar with XBO. Considering numbers we've gotten from other foreign markets there's no reason to assume Series ROTW market share is any higher than 40% of total sales volume so the question becomes what is Microsoft going to bring to start getting serious in THOSE markets that isn't just simply Game Pass and xCloud availability?

The reason why Microsoft has focused on Series S is for a few reasons - availability for Series X is low due to production and manufacturing. Second, Microsoft knows that Xbox will be secondary at best for the vast majority of consumers and in some instances, third. You go with the cheaper option and push Game Pass because this is their best exclusive so to speak. Third, until they start releasing first party games on a consistent basis, there's no reason to push Series X because it's the same price but PlayStation has the brand name and power.

My belief though is that Series X volumes are only low because MS allocated what could have gone towards more Series Xs, and directed that towards Series S production budgets instead.

The whole angle of selling as the cheap option with Game Pass isn't working as well as MS would have liked; it's been said before that Series S is underperforming relative to its intent and the new NPD number leaks just outright confirm that IMHO. The fact is, they need those big 1P games consistently to benefit both the X AND the S; simply trying to sell the power narrative or cheap value narrative isn't working as well as MS probably projected it would.

We're only two years into the generation with at least six more years to go. We have a long way to go. Outside of NA, Microsoft just needs to close the gaps and I believe they will as the generation progresses but right now, there's nothing there to entice consumers to jump in. Like I have said before, im giving Microsoft the entire generation to show me that they're getting better. I'm not going to judge them until the generation is completed.

Again, what are MS offering 2024-onward that suggests they have anything to close the gaps globally? What games are they bringing which will have the appeal globally to do so? And I'm talking about among what they actually own right now, not hypotheticals like if they get ABK (because a good deal of that content will still be on PlayStation and some of it will not hit Game Pass Day 1, such as COD or games like Diablo for that matter).

I'm not saying they don't have games coming post-2024, or that they don't have anything good in the pipeline. But marketability-wise, in terms of having mass appeal in many global markets, what do they really have? TES VI is the only game I can think of at the top of my head maybe helping there.

Also, Microsoft has PC day one, cloud streaming and eventually a TV app/device before the generation ends which will decrease console sales because as important as console sales are, it's not the most important. The platform and eco-system is far more important and is what they truly need to build up because console versus console isn't going to work. But we'll see how it all plays out. For me personally, I just want them to deliver great games and I'll be very happy Xbox gamer.

That's assuming Project Keystone is still coming. Personally, I think it is, but then the question becomes how appealing is cloud gaming really to the mass market?

I think MS are running into a similar problem Sega did back in the mid-'90s: too many gaming products eating at each other among their brand base and product line. It can also lead to a fractured focus in software development, similar to what we saw with Sega back then. The problems manifest a bit differently but I think there are definitely some core similarities between the two.

The difference is that MS has money to try attempting that and weather the storm if things don't work; Sega didn't. But that doesn't prevent Microsoft from potentially alienating more customers than they gain, and that's something they could risk with having so many divergent console gaming products being simultaneously offered, even if some are for cloud gaming exclusively, because that still means a finite budget for resources (production, R&D, marketing etc.) has to be spread among more products. It also means their 1P teams will have to be more considerate of the technical limits of these various devices, which can affect game scope and features to varying degrees.
 
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twinspectre

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When consumers go out to buy one of these systems they're faced with a choice.

PS5:

-A single, universal best-in-class hardware configuration. Everyone who buys a PS5 has access to the same hardware spec. This leads to the next point:
-Mature, AAA, graphically intensive games and SP 'core' games.
-Exclusive games which are considered best in class (sony 1st party and others).
-Complete 3rd party support with legacy brands like Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, and soon Metal Gear Solid, all exclusive.
-core genres with a high skill barrier to entry I.e fighting games, JRPGs, etc. have consolidated around the PS5.

Xbox:

-Main SKU is a underpowered, digital-only unit that emphasizes games subsidization (Gamepass) for value.
-No graphically intensive, mature games. Emphasis is on universal appeal games like fortnite, rocket league, sea of thieves, peppa pig, etc. (kid-friendly is the focus).
-No gaming heritage brands, no exclusive games, and industry award winners that 'core' gaming consumers look for.
-MS 1st party is universally derided as low-quality and at best, inconsistent.
WHAT? Your idea of hardcore is completely wrong.
PlayStation games are designed with mass market in mind, which means pleasing the casual (these are the majority who consume their games)
Do Sony has obscure games? Yes, they do and in fact these games sold poorly, because these aren't designed with mass market in mind (Medievil and Drawn to Death), Sony's first party games are the Marvel or the Avatar of gaming, which means more casual friendly.
MS is also trying to be casual friendly, but they fail to attract their attention unlike Sony which they are master at their craft with marketing and games designed to please them.

In movies you also have casual (mass market) and the more hardcore which are the ones that watches the most obscure movies, and the same goes with videogames, the hardcore are the ones that want to play games that aren't designed for the mass market.

Do you know PlayStation has the lead thanks to the masses? which means the casuals, and they have to design their games for them.

You're talking about "High skill" and yet, most of you "Hardcore" hated Drawn to Death, a game that required high skill even higher than any Battleroyale games or any Call of duties.

You have a wrong idea about hardcore.

EDIT: I love how you said "Mature, Triple A" when these are mainly made to get casual attention. If you play only AAA then I'm sorry you are part of the casual gamers.
 

twinspectre

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I don't understand the point of this post and why @adamsapple agrees with it? Most From fans are on Playstation and they sell most of their games on Playstation so that's another fail.

Complaining about regenerative health in a sales thread is making my head spin. That explains the bad Xbox sales in the universe you come from?
No, i'm trying to pointing out their idea of "core" is wrong.
 
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Bodycount611

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Core:
sonyplaystation5consoledisceditiongodofwarragnarokbundlevideogameconsoleboxcover_c46d6987-7b30-4844-a71d-9fb442bfb9ce_1000x1000.jpg


Not core:
3max.jpg


it's all there plain as day to see. The Series X isn't MS's focus, its a non factor with maybe 15-20% of Xbox's sales.
The brand identity is clear. It's Series S + gamepass + 'universally appealing' (casual) games like the 3 above.
 

twinspectre

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Core:
sonyplaystation5consoledisceditiongodofwarragnarokbundlevideogameconsoleboxcover_c46d6987-7b30-4844-a71d-9fb442bfb9ce_1000x1000.jpg


Not core:
3max.jpg


it's all there plain as day to see. The Series X isn't MS's focus, its a non factor with maybe 15-20% of Xbox's sales.
The brand identity is clear. It's Series S + gamepass + 'universally appealing' (casual) games like the 3 above.
LMAO, You're confirming to be part of the casuals. Hardware has nothing to do with core and casual.
Like I said before, hardcore gamers are the ones that play games that nobody gives a f, Last time I checked games like Last of Us, Halo, Gears, God of War are games that masses play, right? which translate in? CASUAL games, wanna play hardcore games? go play NAtURAL DOCTRINE on PS4.... oh wait, You had 0 idea this game existed right? which means You're a casual gamer and play only games that the masses know.
You play games that come from Activision, EA, Ubisoft, right? which means the only publishers that are well known even by the masses (casuals) try to play Inferno Climber available on PS4.... oh wait you had 0 idea this game existed too, right? see? You're a casual gamer that got confused with the concept of "hardcore gamer", as you can see I know games that most of you (Casual) didn't knew existed.

Here's your logic "I watch Marvel, and Avatar. I'm hardcore", no Junior, Hardcore searches for obscure movies.

handholding, dumbed down gameplay is also a prove that these games are designed to please the casuals.
 

Bodycount611

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i think you're mistaken. You're going down a completely path. Sony is clearly cornering the 'core' market as part of their strategy. huge $500m productions like god of war are only consistently coming out of one company, and the proof is plain as day as to who's invested and who isn't. Just look at 2022.

MS has ceded that market after a particularly rough outing with the Xbox One last generation.

Ms is now positioning Xbox as a mass-market, value friendly proposition for kids and gamers who are less in the know. (i.e casuals).