Share your ridiculous conspiracy theories and urban legends here! (No real-world politics, just being silly!)

[Deleted member 417]

The biggest lie wasn't that the vaccine were safe. The biggest lie was that they were effective.

10s of millions locked down until a vaccine was rolled out, forced on people through coercion and bullying, all for it to be useless at doing the job it was supposed to do; stop you catching and or falling ill with covid.

The vaccines, lockdowns and free money were a scam thrust onto the idiot masses who gobbled it up without a second thought.

"you're an anti vaxxer nazi for not believing in the covid vaccination". And you got banned on social media and socially ostracised for questioning the vaccine that the 'experts' themselves now say was only 60% effective.

 

[Nym]

idiot masses who gobbled it up without a second thought

 

[anonpuffs]

The biggest lie wasn't that the vaccine were safe. The biggest lie was that they were effective.

10s of millions locked down until a vaccine was rolled out, forced on people through coercion and bullying, all for it to be useless at doing the job it was supposed to do; stop you catching and or falling ill with covid.

The vaccines, lockdowns and free money were a scam thrust onto the idiot masses who gobbled it up without a second thought.

"you're an anti vaxxer nazi for not believing in the covid vaccination". And you got banned on social media and socially ostracised for questioning the vaccine that the 'experts' themselves now say was only 60% effective.

 

[anonpuffs]

Interesting fuel to the fire:

 

[Falcs]

you have to consider that covid mortality is far higher in the unvaccinated population

I stopped keeping a close eye on the data about a year ago, but this, despite having always been the main narrative, was always simply untrue. And I doubt it has changed since.
Across all the data that I was following throughout 2021 and the start of 2022 the vaccinated were consistently dying from Covid at a greater rate than the unvaccinated. I know this to be true because for months I had friends who were parroting "the unvaccinated are filling up the hospitals" yet when I showed them the data that showed the opposite to be true they shifted to "oh well that's just because most people are vaccinated."

 

[anonpuffs]

I stopped keeping a close eye on the data about a year ago, but this, despite having always been the main narrative, was always simply untrue. And I doubt it has changed since.
Across all the data that I was following throughout 2021 and the start of 2022 the vaccinated were consistently dying from Covid at a greater rate than the unvaccinated. I know this to be true because for months I had friends who were parroting "the unvaccinated are filling up the hospitals" yet when I showed them the data that showed the opposite to be true they shifted to "oh well that's just because most people are vaccinated."

post the data.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

post the data.

According to people I know who work in hospitals there was a brief period where it was true. However, once Omicron took over things evened out pretty fast.

And that happened within months of the vaccines being rolled out, that also changes nothing at all if you are below 50 and somewhat healthy, you were never at a serious risk.

 

[anonpuffs]

According to people I know who work in hospitals there was a brief period where it was true. However, once Omicron took over things evened out pretty fast.

And that happened within months of the vaccines being rolled out, that also changes nothing at all if you are below 50 and somewhat healthy, you were never at a serious risk.

Well, omicron was known to be way less deadly than the initial alpha and delta strains, like at least 10x less (although I haven't looked at the numbers lately). So it makes sense.

There are a variety of factors you have to consider:

1) The main people who were dying from covid were people who were already health compromised, old, obese/diabetic, etc.
2) The vaccine only has a small window of effectiveness after which it drops off rapidly, so you have to keep getting them for them to actually work (I'm willing to believe this was by design, but I don't have evidence other than the profit margins of pfizer etc)
3) People who were reluctant to get vaccinated either died off early if they were vulnerable, or contracted covid and were part of the 97-98% who had no major issues with it.

So even if you say "in 2022 people who were double vaccinated died of covid the same amount as unvaccinated people" it doesn't tell you that much, because omicron was way less deadly, people who were likely to die already died, and vaccinated people who never got boosters were already on the waning side of vaccine protection.

That doesn't mean "lol the vaccine didn't work" it means "the vaccine had a limited window of effectiveness" and while I personally agree with people who think the vaccines should never have been forced on people and that whole program was essentially a big giveaway to the pharma corporations, I would never say "the vaccines never did anything". There's room for both the viewpoints that natural immunity is superior to the vaccine's temporary immunity, and also that the vaccine was helpful for the people who it helped.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Well, omicron was known to be way less deadly than the initial alpha and delta strains, like at least 10x less (although I haven't looked at the numbers lately). So it makes sense.

There are a variety of factors you have to consider:

1) The main people who were dying from covid were people who were already health compromised, old, obese/diabetic, etc.
2) The vaccine only has a small window of effectiveness after which it drops off rapidly, so you have to keep getting them for them to actually work (I'm willing to believe this was by design, but I don't have evidence other than the profit margins of pfizer etc)
3) People who were reluctant to get vaccinated either died off early if they were vulnerable, or contracted covid and were part of the 97-98% who had no major issues with it.

So even if you say "in 2022 people who were double vaccinated died of covid the same amount as unvaccinated people" it doesn't tell you that much, because omicron was way less deadly, people who were likely to die already died, and vaccinated people who never got boosters were already on the waning side of vaccine protection.

That doesn't mean "lol the vaccine didn't work" it means "the vaccine had a limited window of effectiveness" and while I personally agree with people who think the vaccines should never have been forced on people and that whole program was essentially a big giveaway to the pharma corporations, I would never say "the vaccines never did anything". There's room for both the viewpoints that natural immunity is superior to the vaccine's temporary immunity, and also that the vaccine was helpful for the people who it helped.

Yes, obviously.

However, about the vaccine fast waning and people being told that their natural immunity is useless that is cause for making people suspicious of everything else (i.e., the authorities are 100% responsible for the loss of trust). The source the authorities used to claim natural immunity was shorter lived than vaccine based immunity was Pfizer's own "research" (press release really), all this while we knew people who had previous sars family back in the early 2000s were still immune, yup close to 20 years later, this is researched quite a lot.

But I still think that there are unknowns in regards to vaccine safety, we have sudden deaths happening, we have a constant bump in death rates across many countries (way more than Covid could explain). The authorities in most places refuse to look into it, or even into their reported vaccine events databases. So long as there is nothing serious (I had seen the video you posted earlier, this Dr. is kind of the counter balance to the more edgy stuff I follow, but he still does some explaining away things instead of taking them on directly, he still comes through as honest). I honestly don't think we can know for sure at this point and I would not give these to anyone who does not 100% need them, which is no one right now.

Like, I'm in Canada, the most intense lock downs and forced vaccine measures were early in the Omicron wave. The prime minister used this as a wedge issue during an election and he accused anyone who questioned any policy of being a *ist person, anti-vaxx conspiracy theory, the media played along and people lost friends, livelihood and what not.

In the real world I am in a high risk group, got three vaccines early on. However, when I called the team who take care of me and others like me early in the Omicron wave a nurse was kind enough to tell me that they did not have serious issues with this new variant, this is when I stopped worrying point blank. Yet in the news it was like, oh this wave is to big every body will die, for months... until everybody got it 2 or 3 times and started not to care anymore. Yet, most people still don't even want to admit to themselves that they were misled.

 

[anonpuffs]

Yes, obviously.

However, about the vaccine fast waning and people being told that their natural immunity is useless that is cause for making people suspicious of everything else (i.e., the authorities are 100% responsible for the loss of trust). The source the authorities used to claim natural immunity was shorter lived than vaccine based immunity was Pfizer's own "research" (press release really), all this while we knew people who had previous sars family back in the early 2000s were still immune, yup close to 20 years later, this is researched quite a lot.

But I still think that there are unknowns in regards to vaccine safety, we have sudden deaths happening, we have a constant bump in death rates across many countries (way more than Covid could explain). The authorities in most places refuse to look into it, or even into their reported vaccine events databases. So long as there is nothing serious (I had seen the video you posted earlier, this Dr. is kind of the counter balance to the more edgy stuff I follow, but he still does some explaining away things instead of taking them on directly, he still comes through as honest). I honestly don't think we can know for sure at this point and I would not give these to anyone who does not 100% need them, which is no one right now.

Like, I'm in Canada, the most intense lock downs and forced vaccine measures were early in the Omicron wave. The prime minister used this as a wedge issue during an election and he accused anyone who questioned any policy of being a *ist person, anti-vaxx conspiracy theory, the media played along and people lost friends, livelihood and what not.

In the real world I am in a high risk group, got three vaccines early on. However, when I called the team who take care of me and others like me early in the Omicron wave a nurse was kind enough to tell me that they did not have serious issues with this new variant, this is when I stopped worrying point blank. Yet in the news it was like, oh this wave is to big every body will die, for months... until everybody got it 2 or 3 times and started not to care anymore. Yet, most people still don't even want to admit to themselves that they were misled.

Of course there are unknowns, I don't think the pharma companies would have been granted immunity from vaccine injury lawsuits if they knew it wasn't an issue. I think it's a complicated topic because there are a lot of factors at play. And I do think that there's evidence that certain demographics who might have suffered more harm from side effects of the vaccine than the harm prevented statistically speaking, especially regarding the stuff like myocarditis and pericarditis in young men. I ended up getting my intial two shots because I was required to by work, and then ended up getting omicron so I never got any boosters. I work in healthcare and several of my colleagues including the RN in charge of our program and our facility's resident LPN quit/were discharged due to refusing to take the vaccine. Do I think they were wrong to refuse? Not necessarily, but then again our area facilities had multiple residents die from covid. So it's a real conundrum. I try to separate the political bullshit from all the rest, I don't think there's a group of evil scientists thinking up ways to poison us in the labs at Pfizer - and that's why I push back against the anti-vax narratives strongly. I simply think that hard-working doctors and researchers had a working prototype, it was rushed out for the sake of profit/government not understanding the full scope of covid (like, let's say covid had a death rate of 10% instead of 2%, pretty sure no one would be complaining about the vaccines), then somewhere along the way everyone had to double down to avoid looking stupid because in hindsight it looks like an overreaction.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Of course there are unknowns, I don't think the pharma companies would have been granted immunity from vaccine injury lawsuits if they knew it wasn't an issue. I think it's a complicated topic because there are a lot of factors at play. And I do think that there's evidence that certain demographics who might have suffered more harm from side effects of the vaccine than the harm prevented statistically speaking, especially regarding the stuff like myocarditis and pericarditis in young men. I ended up getting my intial two shots because I was required to by work, and then ended up getting omicron so I never got any boosters. I work in healthcare and several of my colleagues including the RN in charge of our program and our facility's resident LPN quit/were discharged due to refusing to take the vaccine. Do I think they were wrong to refuse? Not necessarily, but then again our area facilities had multiple residents die from covid. So it's a real conundrum. I try to separate the political bullshit from all the rest, I don't think there's a group of evil scientists thinking up ways to poison us in the labs at Pfizer - and that's why I push back against the anti-vax narratives strongly. I simply think that hard-working doctors and researchers had a working prototype, it was rushed out for the sake of profit/government not understanding the full scope of covid (like, let's say covid had a death rate of 10% instead of 2%, pretty sure no one would be complaining about the vaccines), then somewhere along the way everyone had to double down to avoid looking stupid because in hindsight it looks like an overreaction.

I think that there is a lot of doubling down going on, with a healthy dose of corruption. Same thing for the lab leak theory. The media was overly compliant as well.

But I also think that any lock down or one size fits all after the first or second wave (let's give some leeway) was deliberately ignoring the evidence that you could see in every healthcare/regional/national statistics database, by then we knew which population was at risk and how to mitigate the risk for them.

Those who were inclined to see things as government is bad were only helped by the number of bad policies that were put in place (lock people up, limit who and when they can see them, vax mandates, closed businesses, remote work, travel bans). Many of these people are still fighting in court for armless crimes, or they had fines so high that they have lost their home. In Canada those who dared to object strongly and show it were treated worse than murderers (we are particularly nice to murderers here).

 

[anonpuffs]

I think that there is a lot of doubling down going on, with a healthy dose of corruption. Same thing for the lab leak theory. The media was overly compliant as well.

But I also think that any lock down or one size fits all after the first or second wave (let's give some leeway) was deliberately ignoring the evidence that you could see in every healthcare/regional/national statistics database, by then we knew which population was at risk and how to mitigate the risk for them.

Those who were inclined to see things as government is bad were only helped by the number of bad policies that were put in place (lock people up, limit who and when they can see them, vax mandates, closed businesses, remote work, travel bans). Many of these people are still fighting in court for armless crimes, or they had fines so high that they have lost their home. In Canada those who dared to object strongly and show it were treated worse than murderers (we are particularly nice to murderers here).

lockdown probably wouldn't have worked in America, if you want to look at places where lockdowns worked you would look at Taiwan and South Korea (at least early on) that took covid seriously as soon as they got even a whiff that it was real. America's bureaucracy was way too slow to identify it as a threat (and yeah the lab leak coverup/downplay was a travesty) so lockdowns came way too late to be effective. Pretty sure all the metrics say that the lockdowns did jack shit to stop the spread.

 

[Falcs]

post the data.

I've got no reason to make shit up.
Here's some data from Aus, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world. I've picked 4 random weekly reports from this time last year going back till Jan 2022. Like I said, at some point they stopped reporting vaccination status, probably because it wasn't supporting the mainstream narrative.

April 2022:

Link

March 2022:

Link

Feb 2022:

Link

It's interesting how they combine the data of the Unvaxxed and the 1 dose, which puts the "unvaxxed" numbers higher, yet still less than the double vaxxed.

Jan 2022:

Link
Now let's take a closer look at this one. What does this table actually tells us?
- 2 and 3+ doses have a higher percentage of total cases than "unvaxxed"
- "No effective dose" means it includes those who took their first shot but are still in the "ineffective" time period, which means the truly unvaccinated number is not shown.
- Only 1.2% of cases require hospitalisation, only 0.1% lead to death. The actual risk of Covid is basically none.

Notice how they use (% of total cases)? It's interesting because it helps to spin their little narrative. But if they put (% of total Hospitalised) or (% of total Hospitalised and in ICU) it would sing a very different story.
Hospital:
5137 (2 jabs) is 61.83% of 8308.
822 ("no jabs") is 9.89% of 8308.

ICU:
439 (2 jabs), 55.29% of 794
93 ("no Jabs"), 11.71% of 794.

Death:
287 (2 jabs), 65.82% of 436.
98 ("no jabs"), 22.4% of 436.

Now you might say 22.4% is still a pretty high % for the "unvaxxed" deaths, but again, it includes 1 dose if you're in the "ineffective" period. Who's to say that 90+% of this category are people who got the shot then ended up dead a week later and it was ruled as a covid death (Covid deaths were inflated and it's pretty much confirmed by now)? Of course this is probably unlikely, but we'll never know because it's "no effective dose" instead of "unvaccinated".

So there you have it.
Bottom line: According to government data the jabbed were the ones filling up the hospitals, not the unvaxxed. Yet we kept getting told the opposite was true.

 

[anonpuffs]

You realize that you're interpreting that data completely incorrectly, right? If 99% of the population is vaccinated and 1% of the population is unvaccinated, of course you'll get more hospitalized people that are vaccinated, especially (as is in the case of the covid mRNA vaccines) it isn't complete coverage/has quickly waning efficacy.

You need to find out the overall percentage of the population of people who were vaccinated vs the population of unvaccinated before you can use those raw numbers meaningfully, and even then you'd need to know the number of people who were vaccinated and also contracted covid, vs the number of people who were unvaccinated and contracted covid.

Also lol@this in particular:

Look at how they included ages 0-9 in the unvaccinated category to pad the stats. Take them out, and suddenly the ratio of severe outcomes of the unvaccinated class jumps to 373/38,249 = 0.97% vs 2 effective doses (1,258/579,516 = 0.2%) vs 3+ doses (153/50,539 = 0.3%). So your data literally proves that the vaccine is preventing at least 70%-80% of severe outcomes. Look at the death rates in the vulnerable categories, ages 60+. Your hypothesis that the vaccines are ineffective is trash.

 

[Falcs]

You realize that you're interpreting that data completely incorrectly, right? If 99% of the population is vaccinated and 1% of the population is unvaccinated, of course you'll get more hospitalized people that are vaccinated, .

I know this to be true because for months I had friends who were parroting "the unvaccinated are filling up the hospitals" yet when I showed them the data that showed the opposite to be true they shifted to "oh well that's just because most people are vaccinated."

.



You asked me to post the data so I did. Each report I posted clearly shows the 2 & 3+ injected have a higher hospitalisation, ICU and death percentage than the "no effective dose". I don't care what the excuse is. Data is data.

Look at how they included ages 0-9 in the unvaccinated category to pad the stats. Take them out, and suddenly the ratio of severe outcomes of the unvaccinated class jumps to 373/38,249 = 0.97% vs 2 effective doses (1,258/579,516 = 0.2%) vs 3+ doses (153/50,539 = 0.3%). So your data literally proves that the vaccine is preventing at least 70%-80% of severe outcomes. Look at the death rates in the vulnerable categories, ages 60+.

Why would you exclude children from the data? The Aus government was pushing for children to get injected from Jan 2022 so it makes sense to begin to include them. Obviously none of them would have had 2 or 3 doses by the time of this report so that's why they are left out in those categories.
It would actually make more sense to take out the single dose from the "unvaxxed" category, which makes it 373/128,081 = 0.27% which is still less than the triple injected (3%). Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Regarding the rates for the above 60+, how do we know most of those aren't from the single dose category since they mixed the two? The answer is we don't know. All we can go with is the data that is provided. Spin it however you want, but the what the data does show pretty clearly that it was overwhelmingly the injected who were filling up and dying in the hospitals vs the uninjected, which was the point that I made.


There is also the matter of whether or not you actually believe any of this data, which personally I don't. But that's a different matter.

 

[Falcs]

There's also this major issue:

- "No effective dose" means it includes those who took their first shot but are still in the "ineffective" time period, which means the truly unvaccinated number is not shown.

The following statement could be true and it literally wouldn't affect any of the "no effective dose" data:
Not a single fully unvaccinated person has ended up in Hospital, ICU or died because of Covid.

An interesting observation is that if you look at the older reports, the "unknown" vaccination status had higher numbers than the "no effective dose" category (which again, includes single injected).

The later reports combined the two groups to No dose/Unknown. Meaning this now likely includes not only the category that had the higher numbers (unknown), but also the single but not yet effective dose, which pads out the numbers of the "unvaccinated" category. And EVEN STILL, it remained lower than the double and triple injected.

The way in which they presented the data on all this shit month after month was consistently inconsistent. Once you consider the agenda behind all this shit, it's becomes pretty obvious why they did it this way.

 

[anonpuffs]

Why would you exclude children from the data? The Aus government was pushing for children to get injected from Jan 2022 so it makes sense to begin to include them.

LOL are you really asking that? It's obviously because children are a low risk population, so it skews the data. If Aus really was pushing for child vaccination and the only children that were hospitalized were unvaccinated what does that tell you, other than whoever made this table wasn't interested in presenting an apples-to-apples comparison?

Obviously none of them would have had 2 or 3 doses by the time of this report so that's why they are left out in those categories.
It would actually make more sense to take out the single dose from the "unvaxxed" category, which makes it 373/128,081 = 0.27% which is still less than the triple injected (3%). Shouldn't it be the other way around?

You're still including close to 100,000 children in ONLY the unvaxxed data which is 3 times larger than the rest of the unvaxxed data. That distorts the data in a huge way, it's the only logical way to see that data.

Regarding the rates for the above 60+, how do we know most of those aren't from the single dose category since they mixed the two? The answer is we don't know. All we can go with is the data that is provided. Spin it however you want, but the what the data does show pretty clearly that it was overwhelmingly the injected who were filling up and dying in the hospitals vs the uninjected, which was the point that I made.


There is also the matter of whether or not you actually believe any of this data, which personally I don't. But that's a different matter.

That's not my problem, it's yours. It clearly shows that the rate of death from vaxxed adults in vulnerable categories is lower than single vax/unvaxxed groups.

 

[Falcs]

LOL are you really asking that? It's obviously because children are a low risk population, so it skews the data. If Aus really was pushing for child vaccination and the only children that were hospitalized were unvaccinated what does that tell you, other than whoever made this table wasn't interested in presenting an apples-to-apples comparison?

The only children that were hospitalized were "unvaccinated" because none of them were in the effective 1 or 2 dose categories yet. They only started in Jan.
But I agree with you that they weren't interested in presenting consistent data. Literally every single report is presented differently, and this was done carefully and deliberately to push a specific narrative.

Regardless. Like I said, you asked for the data to show who was filling up and dying in the hospitals, so I presented it. And in each table you can see, there are more people from the 1, 2 & 3 dose categories who are hospitalised, in ICU, and dead than those who are in the padded "unvaccinated" category.
If you look at the total deaths, most of them are jabbed. Same with ICU, same with hospitalisations.

You're still including close to 100,000 children in ONLY the unvaxxed data which is 3 times larger than the rest of the unvaxxed data. That distorts the data in a huge way, it's the only logical way to see that data.

If you want to pick and choose what data to exclude to spin your narrative that's up to you. But in that case you can't ignore some of the other problems that I've pointed out repeatedly such as the 1 "ineffective" dose, or the unknown status being included in the "unvaccinated" category.

It clearly shows that the rate of death from vaxxed adults in vulnerable categories is lower than single vax/unvaxxed groups.

You've shifted the argument. I made no claims regarding vulnerable categories or age. I said most people dying in hospitals from covid are vaccinated, and I've presented data to show that most people in hospital, in ICU, and dying from covid are in fact, vaccinated.

Example:

Jan 2022:

Hospital:
5137 (2 jabs) is 61.83% of 8308.
822 ("no jabs") is 9.89% of 8308.

ICU:
439 (2 jabs), 55.29% of 794
93 ("no Jabs"), 11.71% of 794.

Death:
287 (2 jabs), 65.82% of 436.
98 ("no jabs"), 22.4% of 436.

And since I know you will once again say "That's because more people are vaccinated than not" I will point out that there is actually no way to know how many people in the "unvaccinated" categories are indeed actually unvaccinated, since they always combine the unvaccinated category with another. I wonder why they need to do that?

 

[Nym]

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voxday.net

 

[Nym]