The Last of Us Part I Rebuilt for PS5 - Features and Gameplay Trailer | PS5 Games

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nominedomine

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What you think about me has nothing to do with what ND did.

They did a remaster.

What the difference between that remaster and the PS3 to PS4 remaster? I have the feeling they had to rebuild way more code with PS4 remaster than what they are doing now.

They are using the same code with upgraded graphics.
The difference is one is a remaster and the other is a remake.

Did you have a problem with Demon's Souls remake being just a remaster as well? If anything this one seems to have way more changes. Usually people complain about changes in remakes anyway, they can't please everybody.

People even complained about how the hospital look in flashback we had in TLoU Part 2, they 100% are going to go crazy over difference likes that on this one. A certain subset of people were going to find ways to complain one way or another, probably the same people who were never going to buy the game anyway.
 

Bernd Lauert

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The difference is one is a remaster and the other is a remake.

Did you have a problem with Demon's Souls remake being just a remaster as well? If anything this one seems to have way more changes. Usually people complain about changes in remakes anyway, they can't please everybody.

Fuck, people even complained about how the hospital look in flashback we had in TLoU Part 2, they 100% are going to go crazy over difference likes that on this one.
Demon's Souls remake made sense because the PS3 version looked and ran like a piece of shit. TLOU1 has a good looking, perfectly playable version already. Nobody asked for this. It only exists because of Jimbo's TV TV TV strategy.
 

Muddasar

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Demon's Souls remake made sense because the PS3 version looked and ran like a piece of shit. TLOU1 has a good looking, perfectly playable version already. Nobody asked for this. It only exists because of Jimbo's TV TV TV strategy.

Nobody asked for it. Nobody needs to buy it.

There a dozens of games I didn't ask for. I simply don't buy them. I don't complain why it exists.
 

Swift_Star

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Demon's Souls remake made sense because the PS3 version looked and ran like a piece of shit. TLOU1 has a good looking, perfectly playable version already. Nobody asked for this. It only exists because of Jimbo's TV TV TV strategy.
Yet you're here bitching about a game you have no intention of playing on a console you won't buy. I wonder why.
 
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ethomaz

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The difference is one is a remaster and the other is a remake.

Did you have a problem with Demon's Souls remake being just a remaster as well? If anything this one seems to have way more changes. Usually people complain about changes in remakes anyway, they can't please everybody.

People even complained about how the hospital look in flashback we had in TLoU Part 2, they 100% are going to go crazy over difference likes that on this one. A certain subset of people were going to find ways to complain one way or another, probably the same people who were never going to buy the game anyway.
I consider it a port and I believe I stated that in GAF that is more aligned with remaster.

And that considering that PS3 to x86 is a crazy ride in terms of rebuild code…
 
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ethomaz

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Demon's Souls remake made sense because the PS3 version looked and ran like a piece of shit. TLOU1 has a good looking, perfectly playable version already. Nobody asked for this. It only exists because of Jimbo's TV TV TV strategy.
Wrong.

A lot of people asked for a PS5 graphical update for TLOU… it is one of the most requests to Sony in terms of games.

That aligned with the TV Show (the reason to it exists) will sell great… after all it one of the very best game ever created.
 

ParaSeoul

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Again, absolutely stupid to make a bunch of lowlights videos and then pretend the game doesn't do any of those things when in fact it does most of them. It's specially stupid when you consider that the enemy AI in TLoU was way above average for a game of that generation.

"Able to make the AI look stupid", able to make himself looks stupid if anything.

A game so strong that it gets criticized by what it does better than most games, that's the level only studios like ND are able to achieve.

edit: After all the crying that TLoU Part 2 ruined Part 1 we find out that Part 1 was bad all along. I just wonder what game these people that criticize TLoU so much are playing.
Before it was a buggy copy but now you say its working as intended and thats a good thing. TLoU 1 got downgraded. Doesn't mean it didn't end up being good.
 

nominedomine

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Before it was a buggy copy but now you say its working as intended and thats a good thing. TLoU 1 got downgraded. Doesn't mean it didn't end up being good.
The guy is clearly going out of his way to find poor behavior/bugs that don't represent the experience the majority of people is going to have with the game (the same way the rehearsed ND demo doesn't represent how the average player is going to experience the game). Simple as that, if you need to lie to yourself about how good TLoU was keep doing it maybe in another 9 years you'll get over it (probably not tho).
 

Darth Vader

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You can believe and call it a Remake but it is technically a Remaster and it is not the first time a company calls a technically remaster as remake just for marketing.

You can believe all you want. It's a remake, period. The game has been remade. If you call Demon's Souls or Shadow of Colossus a remake, this is also a remake.

What the difference between that remaster and the PS3 to PS4 remaster? I have the feeling they had to rebuild way more code with PS4 remaster than what they are doing now.

Why do you pretend you know your stuff and then ask these questions? More on this below.

They are using the same code with upgraded graphics.

They may or may not be using some of the same code, but it's a different engine. They may be using the same logic behind animations, etc, but the whole logic behind the AI is completely redone, for example. And using the same logic is not the same as using the same code.


PS3 > PS4
  • Porting of old Cell optimised code to X86 (varying degrees of difficulty, I suspect it was hard)
  • Same physics, same AI, same art design, same (but uplifted) textures, same everything pretty much bar a few bells and whistles
  • Result: Game looks pretty much the same, plays exactly the same, is fundamentally the same in every single aspect.
PS4 > PS5
  • Rebuild game in new engine (more on this below)
  • Same / similar physics (varying degrees of difficulty, I suspect it was hard)
  • Different AI based on TLOU II
  • Different art design, different textures, new mechanics
  • Similar sound design (not the same, they needed to rework it to some extent for 3D audio)
  • Implementation of motion matching from TLOU II
What you don't understand is that while TLOU on PS3 and PS4 was running on the Havok Engine, that Engine was then acquired by Microsoft. When porting the game from PS3 to PS4, they didn't need to change the game engine, they just needed to refactor their code to account for X86.

TLOU II was built in a proprietary engine, and this game is running on the same engine, or an iteration of it (most likely the later). So even if refactoring code and logic may be difficult between different platforms (Cell to X86) on the same engine, rebuilding the whole damn thing in a new engine and add new systems on top of it is magnitudes harder.

This shows that the decisions to not include some of the content from TLOU II are probably not "laziness", they are more than likely related to wanting to keep the original vision as authentic as possible.

You can disagree with my last sentence, that's entirely subjective and conjecture, but there's no argument that this is a remaster. This is a remake.



As a side note, remaster has been a term coined by the music or movie industry to describe a process where you grab the old unmastered or mastered tapes / files of a movie or a song and go through the process of mastering them again. In music, which I'm more intimate with, the production process it's usually something like:
  1. Music is recorded by an artist or band in the form of individual tracks per instrument
  2. Music is mixed by the sound engineer which then usually requires a master (some bands opt to not master their music)
  3. Music is mastered by the mastering engineer
A remaster either grabs the product produced by the sound engineer and goes through the process of mastering it again, or grabs the product produced by the mastering engineer and applies a new master on it (increased audio levels, more compression, added reverb, new EQ, etc). Ideally you want this process done on the original mixed tapes or audio files, and not on top of an existing master.

There's also the process of producing a remix, where you grab the files produced in step 1 above and go through the process of remixing them. Mixing is the process where your whole soundscape is created, your stereo panning, individual instrument EQ, Reverb, Compression, etc. There's also the context of remixing in electronic music, where you grab existing tracks and rearrange them or implement them in different circumstances.
 
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Killer_Sakoman

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The comparison they are showing proves my point that the original doesn't need a remake. This remake is likely made to advertise the HBO show and resell the game on PC. Finally, after 100 year, PC gamers can justify buying expensive GPUs 😂
 
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ethomaz

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Too much text to quote.... sorry.
I let the talk about you want to call a remaster a remake outside and just clear up some info about the engine.

Both TLOU and TLOU2 uses the Naughty Dog (Graphic) Engine.
Both TLOU and TLOU2 uses the Havok Physics Engine.

These are two different things.

Think in the ND Engine like UE... there are new versions in most case build for each new console generation... that engine was created for Uncharted (the first game using it) from there NG Engine received upgrades for each generation... you can call it NGE 1.x (PS3), NGE 2.x (PS4) and NGE 3.x (PS5).
TLOU used NGE 1.x.
TLOU Remastered used NGE 2.x.
TLOU2 used NGE 2.x.

Naughty Dog was very clear in several GDCs they won't create new engines anymore and just upgrade the actual engine they have... so the name Naughty Dog Engine.

Of course... there are upgrades between TLOUR and TLOU2 but they use the same version of the engine made for PS4.
TLOU1 is probably the first game using NGE 3.x build for PS5.

Again the physics uses the same engine. TLOU2 uses Havok just like TLOU and TLOUR... the chances to be using Havok again in TLOU1 is basically a given.
 
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Darth Vader

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Both TLOU and TLOU2 uses the Naughty Dog (Graphic) Engine.
Both TLOU and TLOU2 uses the Havok Physics Engine.

Cool, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, TLOU2 is not listed pretty much anywhere as using Havok as it's physics engine, though it's possible they are using it as a baseline and then building whatever the hell they want on top of it. Which is very likely what they're doing.

The developer of Fall Guys commented on custom physics engine being likely. They could be building on top of havok and incorporating a lot of custom work on top as well. You'd have to be blind to think the physics in TLOU vs TLOU II are even remotely similar or even running the same subsystems. That's were you port to.


The Last Of Us 2 seems to use custom physics engine - instead of looking for workarounds for the problems mentioned, they could be solving the ropes using position based dynamics, or direct solver. Custom engine is not a minor feature even for triple-A and for small studio it could take as much or more energy than creating the game itself. On the other hand, when done right, it can create really rewarding gameplay experiences like BeamNG, Spintires or Teardown.”

There's also no job positions open in Naughty Dog that I could find whereby Havok experience is required, only physics sim experience (both writing and developing for).


Think in the ND Engine like UE... there are new versions in most case build for each new console generation... that engine was created for Uncharted (the first game using it) from there NG Graphic Engine recieved upgrades for each generation... you can call it NGE 1.x (PS3), NGE 2.x (PS4) and NGE 3.x (PS5).
TLOU used NGE 1.x.
TLOU Remastered used NGE 2.x.
TLOU2 used NGE 2.x.

Wrong.

TLOU Remastered does not use the same graphics engine as Part II. The whole engine was overhauled for Part II.


So if you want to add the graphics engine to the equation, it still uses a different iteration. Some additional comments from Digital Foundry.


So we've established that the engine is not the same, the game is substantially changed from the original, and that it's still a remake. Congratulations. Also, this conversation is getting stale, and you can stick the laughing emoji up your arse.
 
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Muddasar

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If this isn't a remake then Dead Space remake isn't either.

Diminishing returns is a real thing and it is clearly showing in both these games which were already impressive when they were released.
 
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ethomaz

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Cool, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, TLOU2 is not listed pretty much anywhere as using Havok as it's physics engine, though it's possible they are using it as a baseline and then building whatever the hell they want on top of it. Which is very likely what they're doing.

The developer of Fall Guys commented on custom physics engine being likely. They could be building on top of havok and incorporating a lot of custom work on top as well. You'd have to be blind to think the physics in TLOU vs TLOU II are even remotely similar or even running the same subsystems. That's were you port to.


The Last Of Us 2 seems to use custom physics engine - instead of looking for workarounds for the problems mentioned, they could be solving the ropes using position based dynamics, or direct solver. Custom engine is not a minor feature even for triple-A and for small studio it could take as much or more energy than creating the game itself. On the other hand, when done right, it can create really rewarding gameplay experiences like BeamNG, Spintires or Teardown.”

There's also no job positions open in Naughty Dog that I could find whereby Havok experience is required, only physics sim experience (both writing and developing for).




Wrong.

TLOU Remastered does not use the same graphics engine as Part II. The whole engine was overhauled for Part II.


So if you want to add the graphics engine to the equation, it still uses a different iteration. Some additional comments from Digital Foundry.


So we've established that the engine is not the same, the game is substantially changed from the original, and that it's still a remake. Congratulations. Also, this conversation is getting stale, and you can stick the laughing emoji up your arse.
The one NG said they use Havok in TLOU2.
There is no custom physics engine… they use Havok… the code is custom of course you can use Havok and do the physics like you want… that is why Havok is an engine.

TLOUR and TLOU2 uses the same version/generation of the NG Engine… ND says in the PS.Blog that they overhauled the engine to TLOU2 to archive the gameplay aspect they wanted… they never said it is a new engine or a rebuild of it (something they already said they don’t do anymore since NGE 1.x on Uncharted).

TLOU1 uses a new version/generation of the engine… it is the first game to be using the updates they did specifically for PS5.
 
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ethomaz

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They've done nothing of the sorts for PS5. The game looks exactly like The Last of Us Part 2 with no upgrades from the game. This could run on PS4 no problem
Are you sure about that? Because they confirmed a lot of PS5 features.
That how they do... they first update the Engine for the new generation and so after they keep updating it adding more features and making it better the whole generation.

That is why even being the same major version of the engine TLOUR and TLOU2 have different graphics... one is at the start of PS4 and the other at the end of PS4... same will happen with NDE updated to PS5.

It is the ICETeam if I'm not wrong that works on NDE.
 

ethomaz

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I understand some guys frustration because before the graphical upgrade they wanted the gameplay upgrade.
These that played TLOU2 knows the gameplay was where NG more improved.



But for that you need to remake the game and there is no financial reason to do that.
Core gameplay is a way different thing to change than just a graphical upgrade.
 
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