Jim Ryan's 30 years at PlayStation has officially ended. Says PS5 "on track" to be Sony’s most successful & PS2 sold 160 million (PS official podcast)

[Nhomnhom]

I don’t see what any of this has to do with the discussion at hand?

I agree with all of this, but it still doesn’t change the fact that the Switch Lite is objectively not a console

It's a portable console, what I don't get it is why that distinction matters. Who cares? It is still a direct competitor to PlayStation and one that seems like it has a lot more room to grow.

In the end of the day the Switch is a pretty expensive weak hardware, with limited third party support and still moved 140m+ units while Sony is unlikely to get similar numbers with the PS5.

Underestimating Nintendo and NVidia is a terrible strategy and will only compound with the already ongoing bad strategies like empowering Steam while asking nothing else in return.

I'll not be surprised once PS6 ends up selling considerably less than the PS4 and PS5 and at the point what do you think these Sony accountants that are in charge will do? As things are Sony is already clearly showing at every opportunity that they are not satisfied with their share of the market and are completely delusional thinking they can pivot to PC/mobile.

Are you a Sony fan because of their mobile and PC games? I don't think so. Right now they seem to care about anyone but their core fans.

I would love to be proven wrong BTW and have Sony doubling down on the console market and traditional games business model but that seems really unlikely.

 

[Gediminas]

A portable console (with the vast majority units sold being made to easily connect to the TV) is not a console?

I can easily connect my phone to my TV, with Bluetooth or with wire.
So yeah by that metric, mobiles are console by you.
Mobile can play console games, mobile are close systems = console

 

[Evilms]

Sony #1 just because they beat the trash that is Xbox? Why can't PS4 or PS5 sales be compared to the Switch?

Because it's more easy for the Switch when she combine 2 markets (N64+GBC) (NGC+GBA) (Wii+DS) (Wii+3DS) = (Handheld+Home) this is why it's hybrid at least for Swith & Oled model and there is no competition face her.

When PS3, PS4 and PS5 stay with the same market = home console and and have to face the xbox consoles.

 

[Yurinka]

Sony #1 just because they beat the trash that is Xbox? Why can't PS4 or PS5 sales be compared to the Switch?

Because it's more easy for the Switch when she combine 2 markets (N64+GBC) (NGC+GBA) (Wii+DS) (Wii+3DS) = (Handheld+Home) this is why it's hybrid at least for Swith & Oled model and there is no competition face her.

When PS3, PS4 and PS5 stay with the same market = home console and and have to face the xbox consoles.

I consider Switch mostly a portable with tv out, but in terms of market I think Switch is the successor of the entire portable market (both Nintendo and Sony ones, because doesn't have competition) + the dying Nintendo home consoles.

So I think that to compare Switch vs previous generations, I think the most fair would be to compare it vs WiiU+3DS+Vita, Wii+DS+PSP, GC+GBA, N64+GBC, SNES+GB+Game Gear. So would be:

• Switch: 139.36M, still alive
• WiiU+3DS+Vita: 13.56+75.94+(16M?) = 105.4M?
• Wii+DS+PSP: 101.49+154.02+82.52 = 338.03M
• GC+GBA: 21.74+81.51 = 103.25M
• N64+GBC: 32.93+???

In fact I think this thing of adding Nintendo home consoles makes more sense starting in Wii, when they decided to stop fighting for the high end hardware+AAA games market.

I also think that due to its portable side and in terms of catalog, missing the high end AAA games, game sales more focused on 1st party stuff and targeting a younger and more female audience, Switch is a very different product than PS or Xbox and doesn't compete that directly against them.

So I think it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare Switch vs Xbox+PS because I think they are pretty different things that aim very different things.

Instead Xbox and PS fight for the same demographics and user type, with the same type of high end home console hardware, both include high end AAA games and smaller titles, their game sales more focused on 3rd party, feature a game sub with hundreds of games and cloud gaming, trophies, etc.

In addition to this, regarding country specific sales seems that Switch aligns way more with the traditional portable consoles preferences than with the traditional home consoles preferences. Leading to think that the average player/market also considers it mostly a portable.

 

[Bryank75]

I consider Switch mostly a portable with tv out, but in terms of market I think Switch is the successor of the entire portable market (both Nintendo and Sony ones, because doesn't have competition) + the dying Nintendo home consoles.

So I think that to compare Switch vs previous generations, I think the most fair would be to compare it vs WiiU+3DS+Vita, Wii+DS+PSP, GC+GBA, N64+GBC, SNES+GB+Game Gear.

I also think that due to its portable side and in terms of catalog, missing the high end AAA games, game sales more focused on 1st party stuff and targeting a younger and more female audience, Switch is a very different product than PS or Xbox and doesn't compete that directly against them.

So I think it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare Switch vs Xbox+PS because I think they are pretty different things that aim very different things.

Instead Xbox and PS fight for the same demographics and user type, with the same type of high end home console hardware, both include high end AAA games and smaller titles, their game sales more focused on 3rd party, feature a game sub with hundreds of games and cloud gaming, trophies, etc.

I definitely am of the same position as you here. The question is whether the Switch is a successor to the WiiU or the DS.

I think Switch continues the legacy of Nintendos portable machines, not the failures of their home consoles (apart from Wii). The Switch lite really solidified this view for me.

Xbox is basically on the death walk.... so PS will possibly be the only home console option and the closest competition I see for them is PC / Steam, with steamdeck and possibly more console like boxes on the way...

 

[Evilms]

So I think it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare Switch vs Xbox+PS because I think they are pretty different things that aim very different things.

Instead Xbox and PS fight for the same demographics and user type, with the same type of high end home console hardware, both include high end AAA games and smaller titles, their game sales more focused on 3rd party, feature a game sub with hundreds of games and cloud gaming, trophies, etc.

 

[Yurinka]

I definitely am of the same position as you here. The question is whether the Switch is a successor to the WiiU or the DS.

I think Switch continues the legacy of Nintendos portable machines, not the failures of their home consoles (apart from Wii). The Switch lite really solidified this view for me.

Xbox is basically on the death walk.... so PS will possibly be the only home console option and the closest competition I see for them is PC / Steam, with steamdeck and possibly more console like boxes on the way...

I think Switch is intended to be the successor of both WiiU and DS, plus Wii, 3DS, PSP and Vita.

I think the part of being the successor of PSP and Vita, as "the only powerful portable device of the generation capable of running current gen indies and almost some big 3rd party home console like games", has been very important too.

This last part Switch 2 won't enjoy it anymore because PC handhelds will steal it, since unlike Nintendo they'll have access to almost all the entire PC catalog with 1:1 quality, only not with high end visuals for the high end games. It represents a small part of Switch business/game sales, which I think will be reduced and will make Nintendo lose a small part of their market share.

So I think Nintendo will continue focusing, maybe even more, on their own exclusives and their own device in the medium term with Switch 2. But Sony will be highly growing in all areas specially once (MS made, not PC handheld) Xbox hardware dissapears getting all the Xbox market share, and being more powerful in all areas I think will also steal a small part of Nintendo's share (specially when Sony opens their PC PSN store and makes it available to the PC handhelds).

And well, mobile continues being the biggest and fastest growing market in the last several years, plus now it's starting to get AAA games natively and via cloud gaming, which will continue improving, plus all the main console/PC big publishers are bringing their IPs to mobile. So I think mobile will also steal a bit of Nintendo's market share.

So I think "Switch 3" (or who knows if Switch 2, I think it's unlikely) may be the last Nintendo console as we understand them today, with dedicated OS and exclusive games.

I think at that point, the hardware similarity, catalog similarity, game engines evolution, multiple stores available almost everywhere pretty likely with crossbuy, cloud gaming, evolution of PC handhelds and home console shaped PCs will finally unite console+pc+mobile into a single unified gaming market where you'll be able to buy your games and play them in any device independently of the device type or hardware brand.

Regarding Sony, I think during PS6 all their games will be on PC and cloud day one and some in mobile too. The PS Player successor will continue being sold as PS6 accesory but also as PC handheld to run there the Sony PC PSN games natively + cloud gaming + remote play, and I think will become the best selling PC handheld.

I think it will be the start of a crossplatform PSN: buy your game once and play it in PS console, PC, PC handheld, mobile or smart tv. I think multiplatform stores from different brands (MS, Sony, Apple, Google, Epic, Valve, EA, Ubi, Take 2...) will start to compete, converging even more the console, PC, mobile and cloud markets.

I think the store and their catalog and your library there will be more important than the device where you play them. This also will make Sony, MS, Nintendo, etc. to take bigger efforts in BC (specially for digital games) to give more reasons to people to join their platforms.

In PS7 I think all their games will also be day one on mobile and probably -even if their hardware and OS already have been mostly PCs since the previous generation-, they'll be open to allow "other OS" in PS7 as in PS3 or as in the PC handhelds to also feature the rest of stores and emulators, because basically everybody else (except Nintendo) will already have them and in comparision would be perceived as something many people may mention to don't have bought a PS6 to play.

So by 2034, around 10 years from now, I think we'll start to be in a total multiplatform gaming market. You'll be able to play all your PS1-PS7 games natively or via cloud on your "PSP4", a tablet, phone, PC or PSVR4 buying them only once instead of separatedly for each device. Plus also having the emulators, games from MS or Nintendo, mobile, PC, etc. on the PS7, "PSP4" and "PSVR4".

 

[Bryank75]

I think Switch is intended to be the successor of both WiiU and DS, plus Wii, 3DS, PSP and Vita.

I think the part of being the successor of PSP and Vita, as "the only powerful portable device of the generation capable of running current gen indies and almost some big 3rd party home console like games", has been very important too.

This last part Switch 2 won't enjoy it anymore because PC handhelds will steal it, since unlike Nintendo they'll have access to almost all the entire PC catalog with 1:1 quality, only not with high end visuals for the high end games. It represents a small part of Switch business/game sales, which I think will be reduced and will make Nintendo lose a small part of their market share.

So I think Nintendo will continue focusing, maybe even more, on their own exclusives and their own device in the medium term with Switch 2. But Sony will be highly growing in all areas specially once (MS made, not PC handheld) Xbox hardware dissapears getting all the Xbox market share, and being more powerful in all areas I think will also steal a small part of Nintendo's share (specially when Sony opens their PC PSN store and makes it available to the PC handhelds).

And well, mobile continues being the biggest and fastest growing market in the last several years, plus now it's starting to get AAA games natively and via cloud gaming, which will continue improving, plus all the main console/PC big publishers are bringing their IPs to mobile. So I think mobile will also steal a bit of Nintendo's market share.

So I think "Switch 3" (or who knows if Switch 2, I think it's unlikely) may be the last Nintendo console as we understand them today, with dedicated OS and exclusive games.

I think at that point, the hardware similarity, catalog similarity, game engines evolution, multiple stores available almost everywhere pretty likely with crossbuy, cloud gaming, evolution of PC handhelds and home console shaped PCs will finally unite console+pc+mobile into a single unified gaming market where you'll be able to buy your games and play them in any device independently of the device type or hardware brand.

Regarding Sony, I think during PS6 all their games will be on PC and cloud day one and some in mobile too. The PS Player successor will continue being sold as PS6 accesory but also as PC handheld to run there the Sony PC PSN games natively + cloud gaming + remote play, and I think will become the best selling PC handheld.

I think it will be the start of a crossplatform PSN: buy your game once and play it in PS console, PC, PC handheld, mobile or smart tv. I think multiplatform stores from different brands (MS, Sony, Apple, Google, Epic, Valve, EA, Ubi, Take 2...) will start to compete, converging even more the console, PC, mobile and cloud markets.

I think the store and their catalog and your library there will be more important than the device where you play them. This also will make Sony, MS, Nintendo, etc. to take bigger efforts in BC (specially for digital games) to give more reasons to people to join their platforms.

In PS7 I think all their games will also be day one on mobile and probably -even if their hardware and OS already have been mostly PCs since the previous generation-, they'll be open to allow "other OS" in PS7 as in PS3 or as in the PC handhelds to also feature the rest of stores and emulators, because basically everybody else (except Nintendo) will already have them and in comparision would be perceived as something many people may mention to don't have bought a PS6 to play.

So by 2034, around 10 years from now, I think we'll start to be in a total multiplatform gaming market. You'll be able to play all your PS1-PS7 games natively or via cloud on your "PSP4", a tablet, phone, PC or PSVR4 buying them only once instead of separatedly for each device. Plus also having the emulators, games from MS or Nintendo, mobile, PC, etc. on the PS7, "PSP4" and "PSVR4".

That would be terrible for Nintendo and Sony, they might as well leave gaming if they acquiesce to such a future.
They could not compete as a storefront against Steam, they'd get massacred.

Sony exclusives cost so much, that it would be pointless to continue making them... so it leaves them completely destroyed in gaming.

This would be a terrible, terrible future for gaming and not something I want ant part of.

If this happens, I hope the entire gaming industry just collapses TBH.

 

[Nhomnhom]

I can easily connect my phone to my TV, with Bluetooth or with wire.
So yeah by that metric, mobiles are console by you.
Mobile can play console games, mobile are close systems = console

Keep telling yourself that a portable console is not a console. With the exception of the Switch Lite (that is the worst selling SKU despite being the cheapest) all Switch are made so that they can easily function as a regular home console.

That would be terrible for Nintendo and Sony, they might as well leave gaming if they acquiesce to such a future.
They could not compete as a storefront against Steam, they'd get massacred.

Sony exclusives cost so much, that it would be pointless to continue making them... so it leaves them completely destroyed in gaming.

This would be a terrible, terrible future for gaming and not something I want ant part of.

If this happens, I hope the entire gaming industry just collapses TBH.

On an even field Sony would be massacred by Valve, they wouldn't stand a chance.

Without PlayStation Sony would end up closing down most of their studio and wouldn't even be a big time publisher.

Nintendo would probably do a little better but would still end up suffering a lot and becoming way less profitable.

It's also pretty easy to see that the likes of MS and Epic are betting that in the future they'll be able to render PlayStation completely unsustainable by opening show inside their ecosystem.

People ignore that mobile games are in their vast majority completely different products with a completely different market. Sony isn't any more suited to succeeded on the mobile market than any other random publisher. Consoles always were a niche market but an extremely valuable and profitable one for companies with a suited business model for it.

 

[Bryank75]

Keep telling yourself that a portable console is not a console. With the exception of the Switch Lite (that is the worst selling SKU despite being the cheapest) all Switch are made so that they can easily function as a regular home console.


On an even field Sony would be massacred by Valve, they wouldn't stand a chance.

Without PlayStation Sony would end up closing down most of their studio and wouldn't even be a big time publisher.

Nintendo would probably do a little better but would still end up suffering a lot and becoming way less profitable.

It's also pretty easy to see that the likes of MS and Epic are betting that in the future they'll be able to render PlayStation completely unsustainable by opening show inside their ecosystem.

People ignore that mobile games are in their vast majority completely different products with a completely different market. Sony isn't any more suited to succeeded on the mobile market than any other random publisher. Consoles always were a niche market but an extremely valuable and profitable one for companies with a suited business model for it.

100%

If Sony & nintendo are wise, they will start locking down their platforms and building fully exclusive and sustainable lineups that people need to play well into the future. No ports, no emulation. Highly aggressive legal action against trying to subvert their strategy by means of unsolicited ports etc.

 

[Gediminas]

Keep telling yourself that a portable console is not a console. With the exception of the Switch Lite (that is the worst selling SKU despite being the cheapest) all Switch are made so that they can easily function as a regular home console.

You keep making ship up. It is like talking to a wall.
You keep telling some, how PS fans are like xbots but in reality, you are like xbot, keep ignoring everything what isn't support your narrative ignoring your own logic.

 

[Yurinka]

That would be terrible for Nintendo and Sony, they might as well leave gaming if they acquiesce to such a future.
They could not compete as a storefront against Steam, they'd get massacred.

Sony exclusives cost so much, that it would be pointless to continue making them... so it leaves them completely destroyed in gaming.

This would be a terrible, terrible future for gaming and not something I want ant part of.

If this happens, I hope the entire gaming industry just collapses TBH.

It won't be terrible: the opposite, their games will sell way more because unlike now many hundreds, over a billion players will be able to buy their games, plus to buy 3rd party games on their stores.

With that extra money they will be able to fund more expensive games, to work in more games at the same time (so to release great games more frequently), plus acquire or create more teams.

Basically all games will sell more because will be available in more places reaching more players, and having more stores will allow devs and games get more chances of visibility here or there.

Sony and Nintendo storefronts will be specially popular because of the prestige of their first party games plus the rich historical back catalog they'll have there, and the huge library from past gens their fans will have there. And many games that are now PC only, both indie are big, will also able to be there without the barrier that traditional consoles had in the past.

AI will be also able to look at your personal library in all the current and previous gen storefronts and platforms and finally properly curate these huge catalogs considering perfectly your personal tastes, to make the best possible selection of games to be highlighted to you featuring them to you considering your specific personal preferences.

If Sony & nintendo are wise, they will start locking down their platforms and building fully exclusive and sustainable lineups that people need to play well into the future. No ports, no emulation. Highly aggressive legal action against trying to subvert their strategy by means of unsolicited ports etc.

If Sony & Nintendo do so their gaming business will collapse because game budgets will continue growing at a way faster pace than the prices or sales, and because people will prefer to play on other storefronts and devices that allow them to access to a wider catalog and to buy a game once -and cheaper- and play it anywhere, on a wider range of devices. So their userbase would decrease damaging even more the profitability of their games.

Specially if they continue focusing on paid games only and the market continues shifting from paid games to GaaS. Because GaaS (more than normal paid games) need the bigger userbase possible.

This generation is starting to happen to Sony: their big blockbuster games will have budgets of over $300B, and since they get on average $24-$34/copy they need to sell over 8.8M-12.5M copies for games without DLC to break even.

So big Sony blockbusters won't have enough with only the same PS sales of games like Death Stranding, Days Gone, Bloodborne, Rise of the Ronin, Returnl, Sackboy, Demon's Souls, Dreams, Detroit, Last Guardian, Gravity Rush, Knack, Until Dawn etc.

They'll need extra revenue if they want to keep them profitable, and this is why they are expanding to GaaS, PC, movies/tv shows and mobile.

 

[Bryank75]

It won't be terrible: the opposite, their games will sell way more because unlike now many hundreds, over a billion players will be able to buy their games, plus to buy 3rd party games on their stores.

With that extra money they will be able to fund more expensive games, to work in more games at the same time (so to release great games more frequently), plus acquire or create more teams.

Basically all games will sell more because will be available in more places reaching more players, and having more stores will allow devs and games get more chances of visibility here or there.

Sony and Nintendo storefronts will be specially popular because of the prestige of their first party games plus the rich historical back catalog they'll have there, and the huge library from past gens their fans will have there. And many games that are now PC only, both indie are big, will also able to be there without the barrier that traditional consoles had in the past.

AI will be also able to look at your personal library in all the current and previous gen storefronts and platforms and finally properly curate these huge catalogs considering perfectly your personal tastes, to make the best possible selection of games to be highlighted to you featuring them to you considering your specific personal preferences.

Sorry but that sounds terrible.

I go to PlayStation to buy into a closed platform... if I don't have a closed platform, then I'm not getting what I want as a consumer.

The PC...open approach doesn't suit everyone. It's not one size fits all. Robbing people of that option is very negative IMO.

 

[Nhomnhom]

100%

If Sony & nintendo are wise, they will start locking down their platforms and building fully exclusive and sustainable lineups that people need to play well into the future. No ports, no emulation. Highly aggressive legal action against trying to subvert their strategy by means of unsolicited ports etc.

They have the perfect product that all entertainment industries would dream of having:

- A platform with a dedicated audience willing to spend money upfront (for both hardware and software)
- They get 30% of what everyone else is publishing
- Pretty much immune to piracy as long as the game is not released on PC.
- They somehow got away with charging a subscription for basic functionality that is free everywhere else.

Honestly, I wish Sony as much misfortune as possible as long as they continue in the current path of turning their back on the console audience. At the current rate Nintendo and Valve will eat into the current Sony market share and the like of Epic and MS will eat it from the inside by going to court against the 30% cut.

There is just not much special about Sony anymore to justify rooting for them, most of the support and praise they get these days is undeserved.

 

[Nhomnhom]

You keep making ship up. It is like talking to a wall.
You keep telling some, how PS fans are like xbots but in reality, you are like xbot, keep ignoring everything what isn't support your narrative ignoring your own logic.

My own logic of what? That Sony has no presence in the portable market anymore while Nintendo has plenty of presence on the home console market? That is just objective reality not a narrative, deal with it.

Sorry but that sounds terrible.

I go to PlayStation to buy into a closed platform... if I don't have a closed platform, then I'm not getting what I want as a consumer.

The PC...open approach doesn't suit everyone. It's not one size fits all. Robbing people of that option is very negative IMO.

The PC approach also already exists, anyone who wants that can just buy a PC.

PC despite it many advantages also has many disadvantages, massive piracy problem, optimization/support/hardware ultilization problems, massive pressure for devs to focus on GaaS and low budget stuff.

 

[Cool hand luke]

I keep reading that switch 2 is somehow going to garner more 3rd party support. How is this supposed to happen? It'll have PS4 tech at best while the market shifts away from cross-gen. Time doesn't stand still for Nintendo; Nintendo stands still in time.

 

[Zzero]

I keep reading that switch 2 is somehow going to garner more 3rd party support. How is this supposed to happen? It'll have PS4 tech at best while the market shifts away from cross-gen. Time doesn't stand still for Nintendo; Nintendo stands still in time.

People are still making PS4 games to this day while PS360 was well and truly dead long before 2017. Plus lots of existing games from that era to be ported and an already existing ecosystem of port-houses that make a living off of Switch porting. And Switch also had to have 2 or 3 successful years before publishers really got on board (and a select few never did.)

That said, Switch already has, by Nintendo standards anyway, excellent third party sport and it will be tough mudding to get any more.

 

[Yurinka]

Sorry but that sounds terrible.

I go to PlayStation to buy into a closed platform... if I don't have a closed platform, then I'm not getting what I want as a consumer.

The PC...open approach doesn't suit everyone. It's not one size fits all. Robbing people of that option is very negative IMO.

I think you'll have a PS home console, a PS portable console and a PSVR standalone headset and if you don't want (as happened in PS3 during the early years) without installing other OS/stores. Getting more SP non-GaaS than now and on top of that GaaS.

Buying a game once you'll have them in these devices, plus if some day you want to play one on a tablet, PC or laptop you'll be able to do so without paying an extra.

Your favorite company will make way more money than now so they'll afford to make way more great high budget games, acquire more companies and create more teams.

I think you'd like that future, I don't get why you don't like it and prefer the scenario of -if market continues in the trend of the last decade or so- having to stop making big budget games, having to reduce the amount of games they make, lose total gaming market share letting the storefronts of MS, Epic, Valve, etc. pass Sony.

I think Sony right now has to solidify their lead on consoles and cloud killing Xbox, and become the top 1 publisher on Steam to later create their own PC store to stop paying Valve their cut, becoming the market leader in console and PC getting the 100% from both. Plus later to do the same in mobile and VR: to become also the top 1 in both platforms (in case of VR, to extend their current lead in non-standalone VR to standalone VR+MR).

 

[Nhomnhom]

I keep reading that switch 2 is somehow going to garner more 3rd party support. How is this supposed to happen? It'll have PS4 tech at best while the market shifts away from cross-gen. Time doesn't stand still for Nintendo; Nintendo stands still in time.

How is it not going to happen? All third party games already are made to run on the Series S, mostly in 60fps. With the new hardware and DLSS Switch 2 will probably be able to comfortable get away with rendering games at 720 and 30fps.

 

[Cool hand luke]

How is it not going to happen? All third party games already are made to run on the Series S, mostly in 60fps. With the new hardware and DLSS Switch 2 will probably be able to comfortable get away with rendering games at 720 and 30fps.

But series S and Xbox are both on their way out. Support is being dropped.