Another Forbes article (Tassi the guy you love) A PS5 Pro Will Feel Extra Unnecessary This Time Around

24 Jun 2022
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Sony is basically competing with themselves at this point. Very reminiscent of SEGA after they gained leverage in the culture war against Nintendo but obviously not nearly as bad. It’ll just be interesting to see a new PlayStation iteration without the exclusive lineup the PS4 had when its Pro model shipped. Even if we said this is for PlayStation enthusiasts, how much better can the games they do have out look currently? How much better can they run?

I’ll be checking for it because I like being cutting edge but things are proceeding in a very interesting way currently.

The difference is SEGA never actually gained leverage in the culture war against Nintendo, certainly not globally. We have the fiscal reports showing how their accounting practices were during the Genesis era, and the volume-loading they did with big retailers to ensure they had holiday stock (that SEGA would buy back the following season if unsold). So in a lot of ways SEGA at that time were more like Microsoft today insofar as there being a lot of noise but not much to actually disrupt the market leader (Nintendo for SEGA; Sony for Microsoft), tho IMO SEGA were more an industry leader with certain software and technologies (especially in the arcade market) than Microsoft are today.

Sony have more in common with Nintendo then, in that type of period analogy. Just like how Nintendo stuck to their guns with SNES/SFC, add-on chips for carts (at a higher price), and holding strong in the latter half, we're basically seeing that with Sony this gen and PS5 between stuff like PSVR2, PS Portal, and soon the PS5 Pro plus knowing they've got a lot of 1P & 3P exclusives dropping in the back half of this generation even amid some unfortunate cancellations like Factions 2. And, like Nintendo vs SEGA, they're handily beating Microsoft globally at a much stronger ferocity than Nintendo did against SEGA in the 16-bit gen (because all things considered, SEGA were more competitive vs. Nintendo, than Microsoft are currently vs. Sony).
 
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24 Jun 2022
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I think this generation doesn't need a Pro console because:
  • AAA games take >5+ years to be done + most of the ones under development suffered the covid delay

This was the case last gen too, even without COVID and lockdowns, so I don't see why that's now a concern.

  • We're maybe a handful years away to see AAA released games that were started having the specs/devkits of the next gen consoles since the start

Isn't this where the concept of "rolling generations" comes into play? Plus we're getting to a point where it's not the hardware being so much the bottleneck anymore, so much as the budgets, manpower, and time of development (plus overall team talent & leadership). In any case, a Pro system would make whatever is already being worked on, run at better rates than the base system with no effort needed from the developers.

  • We're maybe a handful years away to see AAA released games that were started having next gen engines capable to take full advantage of this gen hardware

Same as the previous point.

  • Studios needed a few years to fully adapt themselves changing their pipeline to take advantage of next new technologies similar to Lumen or Nanite plus super fast streaming fro SSD

How does a Pro system negate these developments? Again, all the same tech is there, but it'll just let whatever devs have been working on, run even better than the base system can run it at. And there's a portion of the market who would pay for that type of privilege, so why deny them the chance if you know volumes will be small enough to accommodate that demand, and have good profit margins on the hardware while still getting bragging points as having the "most powerful console" on the market?

That's a win-win-win.

  • Majority of the console and PC players continue using previous gen hardware, so made sense for devs to continue supporting it

Again, same thing with PS4 & PS4 Pro. This doesn't suddenly become worst or a bad idea now that we've moved up a generation.

All that means that probably we won't see AAA games taking full advantage of current gen consoles until late 2025 or beyond, around a year after the supposed release of PS5 Pro.

Meaning, they'll take even full advantage of the PS5 Pro hardware and we'll see a quality spike around a year after its release in base PS5 hardware. As spike that will also appear around a couple years before the PS6 release.

You're missing the obvious fact though, that any PS5 game on the base system that doesn't have a specific bottleneck like say the CPU (assuming the CPU in the Pro won't be much more than base PS5's), will automatically get a performance uplift by simply running on hardware with more system resources.

And if the game is optimized for the new hardware, an even bigger performance uplift.

On top of that, releasing a more powerful PS5 would mean to sell it for a more expensive price than the current one, which could be too expensive. And devs, specially multiplatform ones, already have to support a lot of SKUs and they'd prefer to have less, not more.

The multi-SKU situation isn't an issue when the base hardware (PS5 in this case) is already performant enough for current-gen games, and the SDK & APIs are very easy to use, particularly compared to competing platforms like Xbox. Which, FWIW, has a SKU that holds most of its diminishing market share, that is not up to the task for the majority of current-gen AAA game releases.

Those are problems with PlayStation, so it's unnecessary to posit this as an industry issue when it's specifically an Xbox issue. And these same concerns were around, I'm sure, for the PS4 Pro, yet none of these problems actually manifested for games after that platform released. Why would they suddenly manifest this generation?

If the PS5 Pro is going to be a testing ground of sorts for certain tech that could be further evolved upon for the PS6, it actually helps to let devs start testing with that tech in releases sooner rather than later. So that they can begin adjusting parts of their dev pipelines for what a 10th-gen console can bring, getting hard parts out of the way earlier to make way for other aspects of software development which can lead to more inventive and higher-polished games.
 
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Muddasar

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Seems like you're purposefully misunderstanding this. The existence of a better more powerful unit doesn't negate the existing unit. I'm not saying that. The OLED Switch doesn't invalidate the last 6 years of Nintendo Switch. The existence of the 4090 doesn't negate my lowly 6700XT.

The problem is I bought a PS5 at launch and it wasn't worth it. I could've easily rode out the PS4 Pro and played most of the same games with good performance. I would have been better off not buying the PS5 and getting the Pro model this year. I will remember this when Sony expects me to get excited about their next generation box.

Did the AMD 7000 series GPUs negate your 6700XT?

If NO, the existence of the PS5 pro won’t negate the PS5 either.

Just like the PS4 pro didn’t negate the PS4.

The XSX didn’t negate the XSS.

You bought a PS5 at launch and complaining it is useless 4 years later cause Sony is releasing an upgrade.

As if the base PS5 will no longer be developed for and won’t play newer games.

I don’t think anyone will understand your argument.
 
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flaccidsnake

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Did the AMD 7000 series GPUs negate your 6700XT?

If NO, the existence of the PS5 pro won’t negate the PS5 either.

Just like the PS4 pro didn’t negate the PS4.

The XSX didn’t negate the XSS.

You bought a PS5 at launch and complaining it is useless 4 years later cause Sony is releasing an upgrade.

As if the base PS5 will no longer be developed for and won’t play newer games.

I don’t think anyone will understand your argument.
peace to you and all the other martyrs on the ignore list
 

Thirty7ven

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30 Dec 2023
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to start, compared with a ps4 pro

Load times alone merit the upgrade. Then you have higher framerate versions with better visuals, along with current gen exclusives and dual sense features.

It’s a stupid position to take. “Oh I don’t mind missing on games, performance, visual features like Ray tracing, audio features, controller features, near instant load times”

🤣

The PS4 pro upgrade in comparison was an absolute waste of money.
 
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Cool hand luke

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Seems like you're purposefully misunderstanding this. The existence of a better more powerful unit doesn't negate the existing unit. I'm not saying that. The OLED Switch doesn't invalidate the last 6 years of Nintendo Switch. The existence of the 4090 doesn't negate my lowly 6700XT.

The problem is I bought a PS5 at launch and it wasn't worth it. I could've easily rode out the PS4 Pro and played most of the same games with good performance. I would have been better off not buying the PS5 and getting the Pro model this year. I will remember this when Sony expects me to get excited about their next generation box.
PS5's SSD and dualsense are more than enough reasons to upgrade from a PS4 pro.

Shame Facepalm GIF by MOODMAN
 

Say1nMan

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Curious, has Forbes written a piece about how a new Xbox in 2026 is too soon as well? Just another forgettable article from Forbes video games coverage.
 

KiryuRealty

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Where it’s at.
Load times alone merit the upgrade. Then you have higher framerate versions with better visuals, along with current gen exclusives and dual sense features.

It’s a stupid position to take. “Oh I don’t mind missing on games, performance, visual features like Ray tracing, audio features, controller features, near instant load times”

🤣

The PS4 pro upgrade in comparison was an absolute waste of money.
The PS4 Pro actually had improved enough performance for me to be able to play games that triggered my migraines on the stock hardware, so it was finitely a worthwhile upgrade. I had to totally shelve Mad Max, Just Cause 3 and a few other games due to not being able to play them at all on my original PS4.
 

flaccidsnake

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Load times alone merit the upgrade. Then you have higher framerate versions with better visuals, along with current gen exclusives and dual sense features.

It’s a stupid position to take. “Oh I don’t mind missing on games, performance, visual features like Ray tracing, audio features, controller features, near instant load times”

🤣

The PS4 pro upgrade in comparison was an absolute waste of money.
By the time PS4 Pro came out, PS4 more than delivered. I disagree it was a small upgrade. It was a huge upgrade, practically a requirement if you owned a 4k TV.

If you held out on PS5 so far, you didn't miss that many games. Returnal. Rift in Time. Spiderman 2. Compared with PS4 games that weren't cross-gen with PS3 prior to PS4 Pro, there's like 3x more.
 
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flaccidsnake

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The PS4 Pro actually had improved enough performance for me to be able to play games that triggered my migraines on the stock hardware, so it was finitely a worthwhile upgrade. I had to totally shelve Mad Max, Just Cause 3 and a few other games due to not being able to play them at all on my original PS4.
Lol how you gonna laugh at my points when you say PS4 Pro fixed your fucking headaches! Are you seizing up playing PS5 currently? No, right?
 

arvfab

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The problem is I bought a PS5 at launch and it wasn't worth it. .... I will remember this when Sony expects me to get excited about their next generation box.

So you are telling us, that the availability of some of the Sony 1st party titles on a different platform is enough for you to maybe skip the next PlayStation, even though it was easy money for Sony?

Interesting....
 

flaccidsnake

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So you are telling us, that the availability of some of the Sony 1st party titles on a different platform is enough for you to maybe skip the next PlayStation, even though it was easy money for Sony?

Interesting....
It's not *because* they're on another platform. I'm happy to see Playstation games on PC. The point is Sony's teams are putting out cross-gen games rather than next-gen games. I'll always buy a Playstation, but it's clearly better to be on the Pro timeline than the launch timeline. You don't miss much and you get the best version of everything.
 

arvfab

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It's not *because* they're on another platform. I'm happy to see Playstation games on PC. The point is Sony's teams are putting out cross-gen games rather than next-gen games. I'll always buy a Playstation, but it's clearly better to be on the Pro timeline than the launch timeline. You don't miss much and you get the best version of everything.

But they are only cross-gen, because Sony decided it was worth the easy money.
 

flaccidsnake

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But they are only cross-gen, because Sony decided it was worth the easy money.
it obviously paid off for them, so they'll probably keep doing it. going forward, i'll skip launch consoles and wait for the pro upgrade.
 

arvfab

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it obviously paid off for them, so they'll probably keep doing it. going forward, i'll skip launch consoles and wait for the pro upgrade.

If there are people like you ready to skip launch consoles for the eventual Pro console and because of cross-gen games after one gen where it happened this way, what makes you think people won't drop the console at all if PlayStation keeps releasing their games on PC?
 

rofif

...owns a 3080...why?
24 Jun 2022
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of course it will.
This generation is 3 years old. Feels like it barely started.
3rd party devs are largely just porting pc games to it with low settings. Lazy lazy ports with no optimizations and treating ps5 as "budget pc". Shameful.

Use the damn system. Develop for it. do something. I think covid destroyed this gen.
Looking at games on my ps5... what is going to run better? resident evil games will not run better in RT quality mode (now about 40fps), forspoken will be a bit more stable (already is fine after aptching)... some games wiht unlocked fps will be a bit better.
meh. I am still getting it
 
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flaccidsnake

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If there are people like you ready to skip launch consoles for the eventual Pro console and because of cross-gen games after one gen where it happened this way, what makes you think people won't drop the console at all if PlayStation keeps releasing their games on PC?

Most people want to game on console regardless. Computers are a pain in the ass. If Playstation games went day-1 on PC, Sony would make even more money and still sell 100M+ Playstations every generation.
 

Yurinka

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This was the case last gen too, even without COVID and lockdowns, so I don't see why that's now a concern.
I say that because some being released soon go way go beyond that even if started to be developed in the previous gen:

Spider-Man 2: 5 years
Helldivers 2: 9 years
Rise of the Ronin: 9 years
Wolverine (assuming 2026 release): 6 years

So games with proper next gen specs, devkits, engines, assets, workflow since the start will start to take more time things may go crazy if they don't start to make these AAA games substantially shorter.

Isn't this where the concept of "rolling generations" comes into play? Plus we're getting to a point where it's not the hardware being so much the bottleneck anymore, so much as the budgets, manpower, and time of development (plus overall team talent & leadership). In any case, a Pro system would make whatever is already being worked on, run at better rates than the base system with no effort needed from the developers.
The issue of needing more time each new generation is proportional to solving hardware bottlenecks. As long each generation the games allow more detailed assets and lighting it takes more work to make each thing. Plus the games make longer and allow more dense worlds there are more things to make. So yes, they required bigger manpower/budget/development times.

This particular generation they broke different bottlenecks with the SSDs and I/O, so have


How does a Pro system negate these developments?
Doesn't negate them, I just say that soon after the supposed releases of the Pro consoles we'll already get a very noticiable quality spike in the base consoles you won't need a Pro one.

If you start getting games that look like The Matrix demo you won't miss them.
 
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Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

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I say that because some being released soon go way go beyond that even if started to be developed in the previous gen:

Spider-Man 2: 5 years
Helldivers 2: 9 years
Rise of the Ronin: 9 years
Wolverine (assuming 2026 release): 6 years

So games with proper next gen specs, devkits, engines, assets, workflow since the start will start to take more time things may go crazy if they don't start to make these AAA games substantially shorter.


The issue of needing more time each new generation is proportional to solving hardware bottlenecks. As long each generation the games allow more detailed assets and lighting it takes more work to make each thing. Plus the games make longer and allow more dense worlds there are more things to make. So yes, they required bigger manpower/budget/development times.

This particular generation they broke different bottlenecks with the SSDs and I/O, so have



Doesn't negate them, I just say that soon after the supposed releases of the Pro consoles we'll already get a very noticiable quality spike in the base consoles you won't need a Pro one.

If you start getting games that look like The Matrix demo you won't miss them.
Arrowhead began work on Helldivers in 2016 that's 7 to 8 years not 9 depending on when within the year it started. Spiderman 2 started dev in 2020 thts 3 to 4 years tops not 5.
 
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