For those that hate Sony, What made you feel the way you do about them?

[Deleted member 51]

You can't think diminishing returns aren't a thing for the same reason you can't say rain isn't wet.

Diminishing returns have factually been here from day 1. I started with Atari VCS2600. Compare VCS2600 games graphics to CBS Collecovision (the model just after) graphics. Huge difference. Now compare a current gen console game with its PC version. Very small difference, especially comparatively. Magnitudes lower. That's what diminishing returns are. It's not up to debate. It's a fact returns are diminishing. Now if we get quantic computers or a major breakthrough like that, we can still get a step forward, but overall returns are always diminishing.

I know what 3090 games are, I play on PC regularly (mine and my friends PCs), there's no meaningful difference. Current gen consoles run games at dynamic 4K / HDR / 60 fps. It looks and plays exactly the same on PC for 95 % of people. If you're in the 5 % who think it still matters and still see a difference, fine.

Just be aware it will be worse and worse from generation to generation with diminishing returns, until you won't be able to tell the difference at all

So if the differences are so diminishing, why did we have so many upset people and multiple threads about the latest horizon in performance vs quality modes, and how big the differences were? Why were so many upset that PC gets the 60fps modes on some games, while ps5 gets it either late or never gets them? People even thought console updated version of GTAV would shit on PC version, which released how many years ago? We don't even need an update, and day one PC version still looks better. Same with cyberpunk, and every game Sony released on PC. Just because YOU can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 144, or faux 4K and native, or x16 anti aliasing vs x8, etc. There are several console-only players that complain about this very thing.



So again....

If you could have a ps5 or a ps5 pro, which would you choose? Your essentially saying you can't tell the difference, so would you want the better version of the console, or would it be the same, "I can't tell the difference to spend more money" excuse?

And again, this doesn't take away from the games. But sometimes it's about fine tuning your experience. Once you take a break from fast food, and eat some really good shit, it's hard to go back to fast food. And I get that fast food is convenient. But we can't deny that there are better things in life.

 

[PropellerEar]

And again, this doesn't take away from the games. But sometimes it's about fine tuning your experience. Once you take a break from fast food, and eat some really good shit, it's hard to go back to fast food. And I get that fast food is convenient. But we can't deny that there are better things in life.

PS guys fine dining day 1

Scraps 4 years later:

 

[Deleted member 51]

PS guys fine dining day 1

Scraps 4 years later:

And that's the other problem with you warriors. You glorify one thing, only until it releases for PC. Look at how many games you guys claim as GOTY, BEST GAME EVER, etc, only to call it scraps, ONLY when it's announced for PC?

How does the 2022 version of xyz car all of a sudden become trash, just because the 2023 model released? They share the same exact engine, same trim, etc, literally same car...? Why would that be trash/scrap?

Also why do you warriors think that the only good games out there are from Sony, as if the gaming industry is on hold until Sony drops game every other 6 months? I'm more excited for rollerdrome than Spider-Man, although I'm sure Spider-Man will sell millions and millions more. Same with Vermintide 2. There are some people who love cut scenes, holding the left analog stick forward for several hours straight, there are even some that love quick time events and swear by them, over actually having to do something intricate in a game. Different strokes for different folks, but when you have more steam players than the combined PlayStation 4 and 5 user base, and Sony's games don't sell that great...You need to then ask yourself, are the games really that good? Is the fanboy hype that amazing? Especially when these games turn into SCRAPS, sometimes overnight, or after a few months? I honestly have never heard of a "GOTY" game, turn into SCRAPS, due to time, due to releasing elsewhere, etc?


Maybe you'd like to edit that, so you don't look like crazy when you praise the next SCRAP game,


GoldenEye will always be a classic. It might not hold up to today's shooters... But it's not considered scap by any means in today's day. You get what I'm saying?

 

[Swift_Star]

This is so uncontroversial I can't believe it's even a thing. And yeah, it does seem like it's mostly Sony-only players who have trouble admitting that PCs definitely have the superior graphics if you're willing to spend.

Again, how is that controversial? In fact, isn't that the new fear with the PC releases? That the PS will no longer be the "best place to play" because games that were exclusive aren't anymore? Can't really have it both ways, that PS is best, but the more expensive PC ecosystem poses a threat.

None of this is even worth discussing, because it's not a debate.

Nah, the point is ROI for slight better graphics and performance is simply not worth it. That’s what the argument boils down to.

 

[DynamiteCop]

Nah, the point is ROI for slight better graphics and performance is simply not worth it. That’s what the argument boils down to.

Are we all poor or something? What's $3,500 on a PC? None of this shit is an investment, it's a hobby and why would you not want the peak experience out of a hobby you care about so much?

 

[ethomaz]

And again, this doesn't take away from the games. But sometimes it's about fine tuning your experience. Once you take a break from fast food, and eat some really good shit, it's hard to go back to fast food. And I get that fast food is convenient. But we can't deny that there are better things in life.

Well I don’t know if that analogy works very well.

I love good food… I even pay a lot to have good food but I do love fast food too.

So I eat what I want

 

[Deleted member 51]

Nah, the point is ROI for slight better graphics and performance is simply not worth it. That’s what the argument boils down to.

Again, would you rather play GOW on ps4 or ps5? Can you please answer my question? What about days gone? Death stranding? If 144hz is a night and day difference to 30 or 60fps, why do you get to dictate why a PC is not worth a little more money? You can even get higher framerate with lower graphics settings if you want. But I don't get why you can say PC isn't worth it, when I never said owning a ps5 is wrong or not worth over ps4? You do realize I've never said anything negative about ps5. I've never downplayed your system. Everything I've said is literally non debatable.

"There is hardware on PC that is much faster and better performing, which released prior to ps5."


I never mentioned anything about price. But people want to bring that into the equation. @DynamiteCop was arguing this the other day, and he was completely correct. There is hardware available on PC that runs circles around ps5. I'm not saying it's shit, I'm actually not saying anything bad about it.

The cheapest Ferrari, lambo, McLaren, Audi, Acura, Lexus, etc will always have better performance than a Ford Pinto. Ford Pinto owners might not like my comment, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's true. The number 100 will always be more/higher than 99. I'm sure some of you 99 repping warriors will hate this comment, but it's true.

I never argued money. I simply said there's hardware that is more powerful than the ps5, years before the ps5 ever released, and that gap is only widening. This is why I prefer PC, as I can still play all the games, and not have to keep spending money on upgrades for "minor improvements".

 

[DynamiteCop]

Again, would you rather play GOW on ps4 or ps5? Can you please answer my question? What about days gone? Death stranding? If 144hz is a night and day difference to 30 or 60fps, why do you get to dictate why a PC is not worth a little more money? You can even get higher framerate with lower graphics settings if you want. But I don't get why you can say PC isn't worth it, when I never said owning a ps5 is wrong or not worth over ps4? You do realize I've never said anything negative about ps5. I've never downplayed your system. Everything I've said is literally non debatable.

"There is hardware on PC that is much faster and better performing, which released prior to ps5."


I never mentioned anything about price. But people want to bring that into the equation. @DynamiteCop was arguing this the other day, and he was completely correct. There is hardware available on PC that runs circles around ps5. I'm not saying it's shit, I'm actually not saying anything bad about it.

The cheapest Ferrari, lambo, McLaren, Audi, Acura, Lexus, etc will always have better performance than a Ford Pinto. Ford Pinto owners might not like my comment, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's true. The number 100 will always be more/higher than 99. I'm sure some of you 99 repping warriors will hate this comment, but it's true.

I never argued money. I simply said there's hardware that is more powerful than the ps5, years before the ps5 ever released, and that gap is only widening. This is why I prefer PC, as I can still play all the games, and not have to keep spending money on upgrades for "minor improvements".

Oh they're doing that money thing on you now lmao?

 

[Swift_Star]

Again, would you rather play GOW on ps4 or ps5? Can you please answer my question? What about days gone? Death stranding? If 144hz is a night and day difference to 30 or 60fps, why do you get to dictate why a PC is not worth a little more money? You can even get higher framerate with lower graphics settings if you want. But I don't get why you can say PC isn't worth it, when I never said owning a ps5 is wrong or not worth over ps4? You do realize I've never said anything negative about ps5. I've never downplayed your system. Everything I've said is literally non debatable.

"There is hardware on PC that is much faster and better performing, which released prior to ps5."


I never mentioned anything about price. But people want to bring that into the equation. @DynamiteCop was arguing this the other day, and he was completely correct. There is hardware available on PC that runs circles around ps5. I'm not saying it's shit, I'm actually not saying anything bad about it.

The cheapest Ferrari, lambo, McLaren, Audi, Acura, Lexus, etc will always have better performance than a Ford Pinto. Ford Pinto owners might not like my comment, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's true. The number 100 will always be more/higher than 99. I'm sure some of you 99 repping warriors will hate this comment, but it's true.

I never argued money. I simply said there's hardware that is more powerful than the ps5, years before the ps5 ever released, and that gap is only widening. This is why I prefer PC, as I can still play all the games, and not have to keep spending money on upgrades for "minor improvements".

Like I said, ROI not worth it. In the end we’re playing the same games at good settings. You won’t change my mind. Give up.

 

[nominedomine]

Again, would you rather play GOW on ps4 or ps5? Can you please answer my question? What about days gone? Death stranding?

I would rather play them at release. The problem with PC people like you is that you think people care about you running the game at 144hz/4K... nobody gives a shit, specially now that the PS5 runs games so well. Those games were great on the PS4, good that you get to play them now.

I played on PC for decades at this point and the chase for running games at max setting, high resolutions, 144 fps or whatever will only lead to frustration. Just like you think you are so superior for having hardware that is much better than the PS5 someone out there has a PC that is far superior to yours and in one or two years your expensive GPU will look like shit compared to the new ones and so on.

 

[Rivet]

You do what you want with your money. For most people, the difference between a current console and the best PC is not worth the price anymore. It looks the same, it runs the same to most people. I could buy hundreds of high end PCs so really it's not about money, just getting something for the price paid. I don't get enough anymore in my opinion.

That's my answer, yours may be different if you're ultra hardcore about framerate, things like that. It's perfectly fine.

The problem we have today is the software, not the hardware. Every piece of hardware is great. But we get less and less quality games. Less and less creativity. More and more greed, more and more GaaS, more and more microtransactions...

People should spend less time focusing on the machine and more on what runs on it. But that would be for another thread.

 

[RE4-City]

TIL pc is the biggest enemy of ps. People need to understand that the Playstation brand and gaming on general has grown a lot in the past 20 years. If in the ps2, ps3 and even early ps4 era they ported games to pc yeah it would of hurt their business. But in 2022 Sony would be crazy not to port old games to pc for some extra revenue. When Nintendo started making mobile games their games opened up to the mobile audience and now that older ps games are coming to pc it is opening their customer base to a much bigger audience. The ps5 has no problem whatsoever selling. In fact it still nearly 2 years later has the problem of not being able to meet demand. The ps5 is looking to be the ps2 to the ps4 which was the rebirth of the ps1. Sony could port all their games to pc today and they probably would have a single issue hitting 100 millions ps5s sold because people got to understand there are always going to be atleast 100 million people who want a Playstation console unless Sony puts it out the price range and passes off developers with weird artitechure like the ps3. The question will always be how much further than 100 million can a Sony console go. Not everybody wants to game on pc and even some people who game on pc might pick up a ps5 anyway just for the convince. Sonys biggest problem is that they don't let a competitor take away their third party support not worry about their games coming to pc.

 

[Rivet]

Again, would you rather play GOW on ps4 or ps5? Can you please answer my question? What about days gone? Death stranding? If 144hz is a night and day difference to 30 or 60fps, why do you get to dictate why a PC is not worth a little more money? You can even get higher framerate with lower graphics settings if you want. But I don't get why you can say PC isn't worth it, when I never said owning a ps5 is wrong or not worth over ps4? You do realize I've never said anything negative about ps5. I've never downplayed your system. Everything I've said is literally non debatable.

"There is hardware on PC that is much faster and better performing, which released prior to ps5."


I never mentioned anything about price. But people want to bring that into the equation. @DynamiteCop was arguing this the other day, and he was completely correct. There is hardware available on PC that runs circles around ps5. I'm not saying it's shit, I'm actually not saying anything bad about it.

The cheapest Ferrari, lambo, McLaren, Audi, Acura, Lexus, etc will always have better performance than a Ford Pinto. Ford Pinto owners might not like my comment, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it's true. The number 100 will always be more/higher than 99. I'm sure some of you 99 repping warriors will hate this comment, but it's true.

I never argued money. I simply said there's hardware that is more powerful than the ps5, years before the ps5 ever released, and that gap is only widening. This is why I prefer PC, as I can still play all the games, and not have to keep spending money on upgrades for "minor improvements".

Gap between PS3 and PS4 was still ok, things got faster, but that was years ago, and graphically the step was already small compared to PS2/PS3. Gap between PS4 and PS5 is also useful mostly due to the SSD and the Dualsense, but technically, graphically, it's really really close. Diminishing returns, again. We got the 60 fps everywhere so there's that for people who like that.

There's no hardware that "runs circles around the PS5", the SSD in the PS5 didn't even exist on PC when PS5 was announced... And we have photorealistic graphics with 60 fps, what could you hope for more ? More fluid than fluid ? More photorealism than photorealism ? Going for 60 to 144 isn't running circles, it's wasting power. 60 is more than fine, it's fluid. At some point, it's silly, unless you're ultra nerds.

And even if there was such hardware, it doesn't care at all since once again, NOBODY DEVELOPS FOR IT. High budgets and best artists mostly work for AAA console exclusives, so what's the point ? Having a port 4 years later that runs and looks the same like on God of War? Great.

Or it's just to say "oh look I got a shiny brick for $10k, on paper it could be so great you know". Who cares ? I could do that but for me, that's dumb beyond belief.

 

[Rivet]

I started on Atari too. I was a little guy, but I did start there. I don't think when someone starts is necessarily synonymous with expertise or ability. A lot of ten year old tennis juniors kick the out of adults who have been playing their whole lives. Same with music.

I also know what diminishing returns are. I'm a software guy with a decent amount of experience. I've programmed realtime graphics and offline renderers.

In this case I just don't agree that PC cards deliver "diminishing returns." We've already seen heavy compromise on PS5 with games like HFW and most likely the upcoming GoW. You can pick frame rate or resolution. On PC those games will be able to have both and be able to drive beyond what the consoles are doing in terms of effects and image quality settings. I agree, a LOT of people won't be able to "tell the difference." It's why graphics kinda don't matter to the degree some enthusiasts wish it did (which is why Switch can dominate). But people also put ketchup on steaks. So going by what people "think" or perceive on a mass scale just doesn't matter to me.

Remember, I don't play on PC. I prefer consoles by a huge margin, because of their ease of use and convenience. But I mean ... come on ... they just don't hold a candle to PC performance at the top end. They simply don't. I used to have that stuff as well and it's just not close IMO at all. But FOR ME, the juice also wasn't worth the squeeze so ...

We are a bit off topic and I am confused as to why this is even a discussion. It's like a dude with a Lexus IS insisting his car is nearly as good as a Ferrari. Oops. More car analogies.

I work in IT too. You don't choose to exclude PC from diminishing returns, that's a silly idea. Why would it be different ? Diminishing returns apply to every hardware ever.

I disagree with you. To me it looks exactly the same. Maybe I'm too old for that shit. I put the Ultra settings and I don't see the difference anymore, sorry... Even God of War PC looks the same as God of War PS4 to me... Take 2 videos in a blind test, I have a hard time telling which is which... Most people wouldn't be able to tell. Do a blind test, you'll see the results.

It used to be different. You could argue 60 fps was a step, or even more when games were sub HD long time ago, but now...

So your Ferrari looks exactly like a Toyota to me (and to most people).

If having 1 % more perf that you can see is like having a Ferrari for you, then go ahead and buy twice. But in the real world of cars, the difference is a lot bigger.

It's more like being fucked from behind by Nvidia repeatedly than buying a Ferrari to me. But if you're happy with that, more power to you. Peace.

 

[Rivet]

So if the differences are so diminishing, why did we have so many upset people and multiple threads about the latest horizon in performance vs quality modes, and how big the differences were? Why were so many upset that PC gets the 60fps modes on some games, while ps5 gets it either late or never gets them? People even thought console updated version of GTAV would shit on PC version, which released how many years ago? We don't even need an update, and day one PC version still looks better. Same with cyberpunk, and every game Sony released on PC. Just because YOU can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 144, or faux 4K and native, or x16 anti aliasing vs x8, etc. There are several console-only players that complain about this very thing.



So again....



And again, this doesn't take away from the games. But sometimes it's about fine tuning your experience. Once you take a break from fast food, and eat some really good shit, it's hard to go back to fast food. And I get that fast food is convenient. But we can't deny that there are better things in life.

Because you're on a nerds forum, like GAF is too. They're like the extreme 1% of the population, yes those people will go beyond sanity, and that's fine, I like them too, I like you too, but that's still silly. PS5 games run at 60 fps by the way, so not sure what you're saying.

Sony games are the restaurant meal in my opinion, and the shitty indies you mostly play on PC are the fast food. When I buy an expensive PC, I want to be wowed, and if the only great AAA that you get are 4 year old ports of console exclusives that look and run the same, I'm not interested (God of War is rated #2 of all Steam, that says it all about where the fast food actually is). If that's your definition of "better things in life", you can keep it, that's not mine. It's more like being scammed to me. No offense.

 

[Deleted member 51]

TIL

60 fps > 144fps?

Even though there are perceivable differences, these differences don't matter?

Anything over 60fps is a waste?

People admit the graphical gap between ps4 and ps5, is minimal, but don't understand why PC gamers pay to have the graphics and performance gap between PC and ps5? I'm assuming ps5 was a freebie over ps4?

Only Sony is capable of creating AAA games, and 3rd party games are AA or less.

Ps5 >>> 3090 Ti, because 60 fps @ checkerboard rendering is better than 144hz @ native 4K, as power is being wasted.

Having no options >> having options

"Fanboy logic" >>> wisdom, experience and having actual logic

 

[nominedomine]

TIL

60 fps > 144fps?

Even though there are perceivable differences, these differences don't matter?

Anything over 60fps is a waste?

People admit the graphical gap between ps4 and ps5, is minimal, but don't understand why PC gamers pay to have the graphics and performance gap between PC and ps5? I'm assuming ps5 was a freebie over ps4?

Only Sony is capable of creating AAA games, and 3rd party games are AA or less.

Ps5 >>> 3090 Ti, because 60 fps @ checkerboard rendering is better than 144hz @ native 4K, as power is being wasted.

Having no options >> having options

"Fanboy logic" >>> wisdom, experience and having actual logic

Damn man, the success of PlayStation really gets to you. You need to grow up.

 

[Old Gamer]

I have a healthy relationship with Sony. We have great communication and Sony makes sure my needs are attended to and I make sure I try to attend to Sony's needs. Our corporation / consumer relationship counselor has really helped us find ways to keep the spark alive.

<3 you Sony

Such a flowerly way to say "I just buy their shit, as long as I like it".

 

[DynamiteCop]

Because you're on a nerds forum, like GAF is too. They're like the extreme 1% of the population, yes those people will go beyond sanity, and that's fine, I like them too, I like you too, but that's still silly. PS5 games run at 60 fps by the way, so not sure what you're saying.

Sony games are the restaurant meal in my opinion, and the shitty indies you mostly play on PC are the fast food. When I buy an expensive PC, I want to be wowed, and if the only great AAA that you get are 4 year old ports of console exclusives that look and run the same, I'm not interested (God of War is rated #2 of all Steam, that says it all about where the fast food actually is). If that's your definition of "better things in life", you can keep it, that's not mine. It's more like being scammed to me. No offense.

God of War is sitting at #35, as I said you guys overvalue what you're allowed to be fed. Console gaming is like dinner with mom and dad, you get what you get and you better like it or you're going to bed with no dinner.

 

[TubzGaming]

STAT: Less than 2% of professional Gamers use a gaming monitor with a resolution higher than 1920×1080. (source)

I understand the conversation around gaming TV/Monitor Resolution but you have to admit you do have to spend more then what it costs for a PS5/XBSX to get any where near what they can do.
I have a console and its great for plug and play gaming at 60-120fps and Upto 4k Gaming.
I also just recently picked up a gaming laptop which i will be upgrading the RAM next month on for anything that's not on PlayStation.

People play what they want to and how they want to, Arguing over this and that is a pointless thing to do as people will do what they like the most.
Play games how you like and enjoy your life.