Lego Horizon Adventures Announced | Summer Game Fest | PS5/Switch/Steam/EGS

[Muddasar]

Didn't you know Nioh was a first party game? Or some Call of Duty, but in Japan only?

Yuri doing Yuri things

And of course the other insane fanboy thinks he's right because this one is wrong. Spider-Man is a third-party game what a moron.

So different rules apply to Spiderman?

Sony only has publishing rights to Spiderman.

It is published by Sony just like Call of Duty in Japan, Stellar Blade, Nioh etc.

Developed by a former Third Party now First Party developer.

 

[Darth Vader]

Sony only has publishing rights to Spiderman.

Wrong. Sony has the development, publishing, and exploration right's to Spider-Man in games. Marvel's involvement starts and ends with providing them with the IP and requiring payment. The game was commission by Sony and developed by a first-party studio, making it a first-party game.

If your argument held any water then GT7 would be a third-party game considering every single car and brand is third-party IP, yet nobody argues that this is a first-party game. I have posted these definitions before, you ignored them, go back and read, I have no further patience for your delusions.

note: Edited because I said something wrong.

 

[arvfab]

I think Spider-Man is a bit of a special case and cannot be called 1st or 3rd party.

It's not a 1st party IP, obviously, but I doubt Disney could (if they wanted to) let the story created by Insomniac continue on other platforms without Sony's blessing, same as Sony couldn't create new entries without an agreement with Disney.

 

[Darth Vader]

I think Spider-Man is a bit of a special case and cannot be called 1st or 3rd party.

It's not a 1st party IP, obviously, but I doubt Disney could (if they wanted to) let the story created by Insomniac continue on other platforms without Sony's blessing, same as Sony couldn't create new entries without an agreement with Disney.

It's a first-party game using licensed IP, it's not a special case. There's no ifs nor buts, it's just what it is. Marvel is likely very satisfied with the partnership considering Sony has the same license for X-Men and Wolverine, and considering the amount of games in the pipeline, for more SM games as well.

From the moment Marvel licensed that IP to Sony the game became first-party.

 

[arvfab]

It's a first-party game using licensed IP, it's not a special case. There's no ifs nor buts, it's just what it is. Marvel is likely very satisfied with the partnership considering Sony has the same license for X-Men and Wolverine, and considering the amount of games in the pipeline, for more SM games as well.

From the moment Marvel licensed that IP to Sony the game became first-party.

Oh I agree that it's a first-party GAME, but it's a bit of a special case because - differently than 1st party IPs - they still need Disney's approval for sequels etc.

That the partnership is very healthy is obvious, seeing how Insomniacs Spidey is canon now and has it's own official Marvel comics appearance.

 

[Darth Vader]

Oh I agree that it's a first-party GAME, but it's a bit of a special case because - differently than 1st party IPs - they still need Disney's approval for sequels etc.

Yeah, this I absolutely agree with, and to be clear, I never claimed this was a first-party IP, just a first-party game. It's not very common, but doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

[CrackmanNL]

Lot of grey areas fellas (and ladies) there are quite a lot of nuances and not everything is the same + we have no insights in contracts.

-Sony leveraged their movie rights, don't own the full Spider-Man IP. And by the first SM Sony didn't own Insomniac.
-Then we get Koji Pro which is independent creating a Sony owned IP (after the bs of MS) using a first party engine.
-Shift Up where Sony doesn't own the IP but the studio signed a 2nd party contract for the game and no PS studios logo.
-Helldivers which is classic 2nd party, Sony owns the IP but not the studio.
-Square that makes the FF7-trilogy exclusive where Sony basically funds the project partially but owns nothing
-MLB that license the IP while made by 1st party

To fight and lose your minds over a Lego game...that's up to y'all. I can see both sides especially the ones that saying the lines are blurring.
But It already happened, MLB is already on Switch & GP. And if they keep by word of Bungie it's still going to publish Marathon on Xbox.
They already do live-service day and date on PC and the rest get ported after.
Do I agree with any of this no, but for me it's important they keep the console a priority and optimise the games for it, which they basically confirmed to do and value. As long as the consoles isn't an afterthought and I get titles like FF16, SM2, Stellar Blade etc. I already accepted Pandora's box was opened under Layden for sustainability and profits.

Keep it simple, whatever Sony offers on the PS direct store that's what they consider first party now. And to simplify you can differentiate with Sony owned studio when not; to 2nd party. And to wait on Lego Horizon, yeah chances are they gonna offer the PS5 version there.

 

[arvfab]

Lot of grey areas fellas (and ladies) there are quite a lot of nuances and not everything is the same + we have no insights in contracts.

-Sony leveraged their movie rights, don't own the full Spider-Man IP. And by the first SM Sony didn't own Insomniac.
-Then we get Koji Pro which is independent creating a Sony owned IP (after the bs of MS) using a first party engine.
-Shift Up where Sony doesn't own the IP but the studio signed a 2nd party contract for the game and no PS studios logo.
-Helldivers which is classic 2nd party, Sony owns the IP but not the studio.
-Square that makes the FF7-trilogy exclusive where Sony basically funds the project partially but owns nothing
-MLB that license the IP while made by 1st party

To fight and lose your minds over a Lego game...that's up to y'all. I can see both sides especially the ones that saying the lines are blurring.
But It already happened, MLB is already on Switch & GP. And if they keep by word of Bungie it's still going to publish Marathon on Xbox.
They already do live-service day and date on PC and the rest get ported after.
Do I agree with any of this no, but for me it's important they keep the console a priority and optimise the games for it, which they basically confirmed to do and value. As long as the consoles isn't an afterthought and I get titles like FF16, SM2, Stellar Blade etc. I already accepted Pandora's box was opened under Layden for sustainability and profits.

Keep it simple, whatever Sony offers on the PS direct store that's what they consider first party now. And to simplify you can differentiate with Sony owned studio when not; to 2nd party. And to wait on Lego Horizon, yeah chances are they gonna offer the PS5 version there.

The problem with LEGO Horizon is not the game itself. I think nobody thinks the game could be hold back because of the PC and Switch releases.

It's the hypocrisy of

a) Hulst saying just a few days before how single-player releases wouldn't launch day-1 on other platforms.

b) Everybody finding excuses thinking PlayStation had no say about it.

the "doomers" have an issue with.

 

[JAHGamer]

Regardless of what Yurinka said Lego Horizon is absolutely a first party game.

1st party IP (Horizon)
Co-developed by a 1st party studio (Guerilla)
Published by SIE

It matches all the criteria of a 1st party game, anyone that says it isn't 1st party is coping. And like @arvfab said, defending Hulst blatantly lying to them less than a week before the games announcement.

 

[Muddasar]

Wrong. Sony has the development, publishing, and exploration right's to Spider-Man in games. Marvel's involvement starts and ends with providing them with the IP and requiring payment. The game was commission by Sony and developed by a first-party studio, making it a first-party game.

If your argument held any water then GT7 would be a third-party game considering every single car and brand is third-party IP, yet nobody argues that this is a first-party game. I have posted these definitions before, you ignored them, go back and read, I have no further patience for your delusions.

note: Edited because I said something wrong.

Oh it’s Publishing rights. The publisher is free to pick a developer of their choice. First Party or Third Party.

Marvel works with Insomniac in Spiderman game development. Whether it is story, characters and costumes.

Gran Turismo is an absolute silly example to give.

It’s a Sony IP. Cars and tracks are licenses.

Behave.

 

[Darth Vader]

Regardless of what Yurinka said Lego Horizon is absolutely a first party game.

1st party IP (Horizon)
Co-developed by a 1st party studio (Guerilla)
Published by SIE

It matches all the criteria of a 1st party game, anyone that says it isn't 1st party is coping. And like @arvfab said, defending Hulst blatantly lying to them less than a week before the games announcement.

Exactly. And what upsets me further is that people come up with the "oh ur dumb urrr durrr" logic when talking about ports, when IMO if they were not porting everything to PC this would actually be the PERFECT first-party candidate for a port.

I never considered the Switch due to competition, but to be fair if these were the kinds of games ported there I'd be more than ok with it considering no parent is going to buy a PS5 for their kid to play LEGO Horizon.

However, due to Hermen's ongoing lies and not even being able to articulate how ports help the platform (he states hopes and dreams only), this makes me believe that other games are fair game for coming on more platforms, which further devalues the value proposition of PS exclusives: Bug free experiences, best in class SP experiences, pushing the boundaries of the Hardware due to single platform optimisation work - with the exception of best in class SP experiences, the other three are gone.

PC gamers happy with State of PlayStation, PlayStation gamers generally very disappointed

We can see from social media and YouTube that pc focused gamers are delighted with the state of play....with Asmongold and Rurikhan being prime examples While PlayStation gamers are generally quite disappointed. This is natural though when PC ports and pc releases have become more and more a...

icon-era.com

• Keep their main studios focused on SP experiences ONLY
• Increase the size and geographical location of those same studios, like having "Naughty Dog Berlin" or "Sucker Punch Warsaw" for additional output
• Acquire / Partner with 3rd party studios to produce spin-off games based on established IP
• Acquire / Partner with 3rd party studios to develop PS5 exclusive AA games to be released at a lower price point ($40)
• Acquire studios to focus on Live Service offers (this has been achieved), including live service spin-offs of existing IP (instead of having Guerrilla work on a live service game, for example)
• Use studios like Bluepoint to remaster / remake older games to be released 3 to 12 months before movies, tv shows, or sequels.

Then release as follows

• SP AAA experiences - PS5 exclusive, 1 or 2 yearly releases
• SP AA experiences - PS5 exclusive, 1 or 2 yearly releases
• Remasters / Remakes - PS5 exclusive, 1 or 2 yearly releases
• SP franchise spin-offs - PS5 / PC, 1 or 2 yearly releases
• Live Service - PS5 / PC, 1 yearly release

 

[ethomaz]

Spider-Man game is Sony’s 1st-party game using licensed IP from Marvel.

It doesn’t matter if it was developer by a 1st-party studio (today) or 3rd-party studio (in the past) the game is 1st-party.

The licensing rights you used to make the game doesn’t matter too. The new Indiana Jones game is MS a first-party game using the Indiana Jones IP license.

If MS create another Spider-Man game with the same license rights from Marvel or Sony create another Indiana Jones game with the license rights to Indians Jones it will be first-party for MS and Sony respectively.

Edit - Lego Horizon is 3rd-party.
It is a game/franchise is created by Lego and if it is being developed by a 3rd-party studio.
Sony involvement here is licensing the rights to them use Horizon… just like Sony uses Spider-Man from Marvel.

And yes you use a licensed IP in your game you have the co developer/consulting guide from the IP owner to not do things that will descaraterize the original IP.

You need to follow the rules form the Spider-Man Universe… and you need to consult the IP owner if you can do things plus the IP owner validades the final work to not allow something breaking what their created in Spider-Man universe.

 

[Darth Vader]

Oh it’s Publishing rights. The publisher is free to pick a developer of their choice. First Party or Third Party.

It's publishing and development rights, which allowed Sony to pick the studio. You even state so yourself.

Marvel works with Insomniac in Spiderman game development. Whether it is story, characters and costumes.

Not sure about costumes (I'd assume Marvel would want some of their own there), but the Story and Characters were developed by Insomniac with no Marvel input other than consultation, which insomniac found necessary, not Marvel. So again, you're wrong and out of your depth.

How Insomniac's Spider-Man Came to Be - IGN Unfiltered - IGN

Marvel gave Insomniac the option to make a game based on any character they wanted.

www.ign.com

Marvel wasn't interested in having Insomniac work around a movie or comic tie-in either, they wanted Insomniac to create their own version of a character, and Marvel was willing to let the developer take their pick. "[Marvel said] 'Look, we've got a lot of characters. Pick a character that you guys think works for you, and then we'd love to hear your take on it.'"

Further.

Marvel's Spider-Man: How Insomniac Spun Its Web

As Spider-Man for PlayStation 4 releases its final planned DLC and closes the book on one of the year's biggest games, we take a look back at how Insomniac created the blockbuster with insights from key creative team members.

www.gamespot.com

Wikipedia covers this in great detail with more sources.

Spider-Man (2018 video game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gran Turismo is an absolute silly example to give.

It’s a Sony IP. Cars and tracks are licenses.

So what you're saying is that this is a third-party game, since tracks and cars are licensed, LIKE SPIDER-MAN.

I've told you before, you're wrong, take your L and move on

 

[Muddasar]

So what you're saying is that this is a third-party game, since tracks and cars are licensed, LIKE SPIDER-MAN.

I've told you before, you're wrong, take your L and move on

You keep declaring victory with nonsense.

Gran Turismo is a SONY IP.

Spider-Man is a MARVEL IP. That’s why the games are called Marvels Spider-Man.

Sony have been given publishing rights for 3 main games.

Sony pays Marvel royalties for each game sale and even Spiderman console bundle sale including the collectors edition console and game.

So using your logic, Fortnite belongs to the entire Video game industry cause of the characters, skins etc.

It belongs to EPIC.

Super Smash Bros doesn’t belong to Nintendo because it has Megaman, Tekken and Street fighters characters in it.

Why are First Party developers called First Party developers? Cause they are OWNED by a First Party like Sony.

It’s the same for games. Bloodborne, Horizon, Gran Turismo, Death Stranding are First Party games because they are OWNED by a First Party. In this case Sony.

You want to see OWNERSHIP of a game? look who owns the IP.

 

[ethomaz]

You keep declaring victory with nonsense.

Gran Turismo is a SONY IP.

Spider-Man is a MARVEL IP. That’s why the games are called Marvels Spider-Man.

Sony have been given publishing rights for 3 main games.

Sony pays Marvel royalties for each game sale and even Spiderman console bundle sale including the collectors edition console and game.

So using your logic, Fortnite belongs to the entire Video game industry cause of the characters, skins etc.

It belongs to EPIC.

Super Smash Bros doesn’t belong to Nintendo because it has Megaman, Tekken and Street fighters characters in it.

Why are First Party developers called First Party developers? Cause they are OWNED by a First Party like Sony.

It’s the same for games. Bloodborne, Horizon, Gran Turismo, Death Stranding are First Party games because they are OWNED by a First Party. In this case Sony.

You want to see OWNERSHIP of a game? look who owns the IP.

I think you are confusing IP ownership with game ownership here.

Spider-man / Gran Turismo cases.

+ The code, assets, arts, etc are all owned by Sony... Sony's owns the game.
+ The 3rd-party IP licensed to be used as in the game is owned by 3rd-party.

You will understand that when you realize others companies can get the same 3rd-party IP theme and create their own 1st-party game.
For example MS can license the Spider-man IP from Marvel (when the exclusivity to Sony ends) and created another another game owned by MS that will be using the IP... it will be a first-party game to MS because the code, assets, arts, etc are all owned by MS.

You have GT and Forza... they use near 90% the same 3rd-party licensed IPs... they are still games owned by Sony and MS respectively... the use of a 3rd-party IP doesn't mean you don't own the game itself.

And here we reach Lego Horizon.
It is game owned by Lego... the code, assets, etc are owned by Lego.... using the Sony's Horizon IP doesn't make the game a Sony property... just like not make Spider-man game created by Sony a Marvel property.

And I give another example to explain Publishing Rights (that have nothing to do with game ownership).
Death Stranding is a 1st-party game... Sony owns it... and IP used for the game is Sony ownership too... here both are game and IP are owned by Sony.
The game is developed by a 3rd-party developer... so here people sometimes uses this type of deal as 2nd-party.
Sony published the game on PlayStation.
But the publishing rights were given to another Publisher on PC... If I remember correctly it was give the publishing rights to 505 Games.
505 Games doesn't own anything from Death Stranding but they got the publishing rights because Sony didn't want to publish the game there.
Maybe Death Stranding 2 will be published by Sony on PC because today they already have a PC Publishing department in house (that dependes how the contract of Publishing Rights with 505 Games was done too... maybe it was for multiples games).

So again Publishing Rights have nothing to do with the ownership of the game or IP.
It just a license you have from the owner of the game to publish that game.

 

[Muddasar]

I think you are confusing IP ownership with game ownership here.

Spider-man / Gran Turismo cases.

+ The code, assets, arts, etc are all owned by Sony... Sony's owns the game.
+ The 3rd-party IP licensed to be used as in the game is owned by 3rd-party.

IP and Game Ownership are the same thing bro.

Sony owns Gran Turismo.

Marvel owns Spider-Man.

Sony can’t lose Gran Turismo.

When Spider-Man rights are gone then we will discuss.

 

[ethomaz]

IP and Game Ownership are the same thing bro.

Sony owns Gran Turismo.

Marvel owns Spider-Man.

Sony can’t lose Gran Turismo.

When Spider-Man rights are gone then we will discuss.

They are not.

Sony doesn't own the IPs used in Gran Turismo.
Marvel doesn't own the game Spider-man.

When Sony lose the IP license to use Spider-man from Marvel they will still own the games Spider-man and Spider-man 2 they created.
That won't change anything.

BTW Sony's Spider-man game is not the first one... we have others Spider-man games in the past... games owned by others companies... so the case you are talking already happened several times.

Using a 3rd-party IP doesn't mean it is not 1st-party.
It is 1st-party if the platform holder owns the game (code, assets, etc).

BTW in this Sony's pic you can see some first-party games that includes Spider-man.

 

[CrackmanNL]

The problem with LEGO Horizon is not the game itself. I think nobody thinks the game could be hold back because of the PC and Switch releases.

It's the hypocrisy of

a) Hulst saying just a few days before how single-player releases wouldn't launch day-1 on other platforms.

b) Everybody finding excuses thinking PlayStation had no say about it.

the "doomers" have an issue with.

regarding A: He said that but specifically tentpole cinematic games PS studios is known for, you could argue that the IP is flagship but the instalment/spin-off is not. (Dragon Quest monsters is not the same as a mainline DQ)

For B: Imo it's just Sony wanting more profit that's it and also the cross media stuff, appeal to kids, sell toys/lego sets. Nintendo is the gateway for kids to (core) gaming. Lego has the numbers that it sells the best on Switch, If this does well they easily gonna do more cross-overs. Like I pointed out that line was already crossed years back when Layden greenlit HZD on PC.

 

[Darth Vader]

Bunch of nonsense that has been debunked plenty of times

I will help you, buddy, since you're not only consistently wrong, but also refuse to admit you're wrong.

Do you think SIE leadership are imcompetent?

The world doesn’t revolve around you and your needs only. I’m personally sick of most Nintendo games cause it’s the same shit on a different day. Doesn’t mean they should stop making those games cause millions still want to play them. So who are you on here advocating on behalf of? The subset...

icon-era.com

Spider-Man 2 is gonna break every Sony 1st Party sales record.

So yes it is worth it. I hope Sony continues making Spiderman sequels.

Fully playable Wolverine PC build circulating 😬😥😥 PhD plus DMCA notices to ppl who downloaded.

Best to just ignore this chud, he's already been exposed as a pathological liar you made up a conspiracy theory one post earlier in this thread.

icon-era.com

Leaked Wolverine running on PC right now would not be happening without Hulst.

Sony first party games have PC as the lead platform from the looks of things.

Take your bloody L, this is humiliating.

 

[Muddasar]

They are not.

Sony doesn't own the IPs used in Gran Turismo.
Marvel doesn't own the game Spider-man.

BTW Sony's Spider-man game is not the first one... we have others Spider-man games in the past... games owned by others companies... so the case you are talking already happened several times.

You are conflating 2 different things.

We are discussing First Party Games.

Gran Turismo is entirely a Sony Game IP.

Cars belong to the manufacturer. They don’t own the Gran Turismo game. Neither does Sony own the cars.

Every Spider-Man game belongs to Marvel. Whoever they gave publishing rights are free to continue publishing those games which they published under their label.

Activision can do it for the games they published and so can Sony.

Marvel will probably still get royalties.