Sony to Take Action as PS5, PS4 Owners Play Less Than Anticipated

[ethomaz]

The fact that you have to do research means that you're completely ignorant to the platform as you don't use it. Your research is bullshit. The user experience on PC is nearly flawless.

Most of the issues people freak out about are the result of mistakes they've made, hardware they shouldn't be running for that given game, or them tinkering with things they should not be.

The last actual issue I have encountered on PC was with Rage and a driver issue well over a decade ago.

Man you lives in an alternative dimension lol

 

[DynamiteCop]

Man you lives in an alternative dimension lol

Yes, it's called reality. Where do you hail from?

 

[ethomaz]

Yes, it's called reality. Where do you hail from?

Nah... that alternative dimension only exists in your head even if you call it reality.

I live in the actual world where users doesn't have flawless PC gaming experiences and talks about that in all places including to help each other.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I can count the amount of PC games I've had problems with in the last decade on 1 hand.

I can't count the amount of console games I've had problems with because there are none.

That's the difference. And for a lot of people it's significant.. especially since "I have a problem, what do?" can be a really hard question to answer even for someone whose been PC gaming for nearly 40 years, let alone a newb.

 

[ethomaz]

I can count the amount of PC games I've had problems with in the last decade on 1 hand.

I can't count the amount of console games I've had problems with because there are none.

That's the difference. And for a lot of people it's significant.. especially since "I have a problem, what do?" can be a really hard question to answer even for someone whose been PC gaming for nearly 40 years, let alone a newb.

I see hardcore PC gamers with uncommon issues having really hard times to try to fix.
Others just with common issues that they don't even take as a issue because they know how to fix and it is very easy and fast.

And I saw even random issues... or I should say better random hardware issues... for example GPU that have some issues when put in the PCI-E slot 1 but works fine in PCI-E slot 2... ohhhh but it so the GPU fault? Not exactly... it works fine in any slot in any others PC you put it... so motherboard fault? Doesn't seems like because if you use another GPU it works perfectly in that PC.
You just accept it like it is... there is some incompatibility between that PC and that GPU when used in that slot but that is all... you change the GPU or use it in another slot and the lives go on but to reach that point you made several tests, reboots, etc that took like days, weeks, months of research and tries.

People will be surprise how obscure and unsolvable issues somebody that works in hardware support faces... all of them has a lot of stories to talk.

Are there issues caused by the user? Yes... a lot.
Are there issues easy to fix? Yes... a lot.
Most users probably play fine or at least can fix most easy issues? Yes.

But it is not the fllawless world somes try to create the narrative.

Consoles are not the flawless world too but the number of issues is several times lower than PC.
But that is the nature of PC... different hardware configs and different software configs... each on is a new case... and games can run good in one and not in another... have issues in one and not in another.
Sometimes you know what the issue is... others times you find fix... others just a workaround... others you just reinstall everything...

Talking about Steam Deck... you will find a lot of issues... some easy to fix, others easy to workaround, others only with factory reset, etc.

 

[IntentionalPun]

You really aren't doing yourselves any favors here claiming you are "researching this" vs. guys w/ actually extensive PC gaming experience lol

The thing is, you could have 1% of people having issues with a game or 50%, and doing some google searching won't tell you how big of a problem something is.

Issues are rare, just not relative to console gaming.. where issues are nearly non-existent.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Makes sense but it would need a new console every generation.

Companies like Sony love selling hardware. I don't think they'd mind

Or picture this, Sony just continues to port their games to PC making the need for a proprietary handheld from them completely useless as you could just buy a Steam Deck..

For all the talking around here there's very little actual thought.

I was gonna respond but I think this says it best:

So instead of selling first AND third party software on an own device, where the users might also subscribe for their subscription service, to further ensure that a user remains in the PlayStation ecosystem, they should lose 30% on their first party games (or 100% in case of piracy), the 30% they got from third party games, any possibility for subscription money, and all that after having spent money to make the port.

You are right, very little thought in here.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I see hardcore PC gamers with uncommon issues having really hard times to try to fix.
Others just with common issues that they don't even take as a issue because they know how to fix and it is very easy and fast.

And I saw even random issues... or I should say better random hardware issues... for example GPU that have some issues when put in the PCI-E slot 1 but works fine in PCI-E slot 2... ohhhh but it so the GPU fault? Not exactly... it works fine in any slot in any others PC you put it... so motherboard fault? Doesn't seems like because if you use another GPU it works perfectly in that PC.
You just accept it like it is... there is some incompatibility between that PC and that GPU when used in that slot but that is all... you change the GPU or use it in another slot and the lives go on but to reach that point you made several tests, reboots, etc that took like days, weeks, months of research and tries.

People will be surprise how obscure and unsolvable issues somebody that works in hardware support faces... all of them has a lot of stories to talk.

Are there issues caused by the user? Yes... a lot.
Are there issues easy to fix? Yes... a lot.
Most users probably play fine or at least can fix most easy issues? Yes.

But it is not the fllawless world somes try to create the narrative.

Consoles are not the flawless world too but the number of issues is several times lower than PC.
But that is the nature of PC... different hardware configs and different software configs... each on is a new case... and games can run good in one and not in another... have issues in one and not in another.
Sometimes you know what the issue is... others times you find fix... others just a workaround... others you just reinstall everything...

Talking about Steam Deck... you will find a lot of issues... some easy to fix, others easy to workaround, others only with factory reset, etc.

I know Windows has an error log which keeps track of any hardware issues (up to a limit) and you can get the error codes as well as brief & detailed descriptions, and in looking up some of those you can possibly fix an issue for good.

But, it does require quite a bit of effort to look up the issue, see what the problem is, read all the possible solutions, and then actually implement them. There could be other things too like controller drivers locking up the USB port (stalling a system process maybe requiring a forced shutdown and reboot recompiling the disk of some data) or a mouse cursor just suddenly disappearing; I've had both happen with me on laptop and it's annoying as hell when it randomly decides to do so but the fixes are pretty quick & straightforward.

But yeah, that's basically PC in a nutshell, PC gaming included. I'm glad we aren't back in the DOS days because those dudes had to manually mess with jumpers on cards and configure BIOS settings for devices almost on a per-game basis, mess with stuff like IRQs etc. Always impressed with how guys like LGR seem to work with older systems like it's butter.

Compared to those days, PC gaming today's a walk in the park. But there are still some big inconveniences that pop up which are practically not a factor on console, that much is true.

 

[Deleted member 13]

I'm a huge PC guy and a big Valve fan but claiming "vita is redundant" because of Steam deck is just ridiculous.

But it is redundant.

Why make a dedicated console that won't be backward compatible and have to redevelop one when the PS6 games come out? The Steam Deck will play most games that are Sony games whenever they come out now and in the future for the PS6. It just doesn't make sense to develop one.

You also mention some games not working on the Steam Deck. While that is true for some games, it's not true for most of the modern ones. There are several games that have the "?" installed on my SD and they work fine. I've only found a couple of games that aren't popular that don't work. ALL of the Sony games will work on the SD because Valve will definitely make sure they do since they are extremely popular. I can bet Spiderman will be Steam Deck compatible.

 

[IntentionalPun]

But it is redundant.

Why make a dedicated console that won't be backward compatible and have to redevelop one when the PS6 games come out? The Steam Deck will play most games that are Sony games whenever they come out now and in the future for the PS6. It just doesn't make sense to develop one.

You make a console to sell a platform that generates you profit no matter whose software sells on that device.

Beyond all of the consumer reasons why Steam Deck doesn't make a true console handheld experience "redundant", the business reason it's not redundant are as clear as could be.

Steam Deck is a cool concept, as is Steam OS in general.. but making games for PC doesn't suddenly make the idea of Sony hardware platforms redundant.

 

[Deleted member 13]

You make a console to sell a platform that generates you profit no matter whose software sells on that device.

True.

Beyond all of the consumer reasons why Steam Deck doesn't make a true console handheld experience "redundant", the business reason it's not redundant are as clear as could be.

The Steam Deck is a PC. It will have backward compatibility of older games, indie games, and new games. It doesn't require PC knowledge for the most part since it's UI is loaded automatically. The only reason why the SD isn't a big splash hit is because Valve controls the distribution. You simply can't buy a SD in a Best Buy. Otherwise, it would be a big console seller competing with Nintendo Switch.

Steam Deck is a cool concept, as is Steam OS in general.. but making games for PC doesn't suddenly make the idea of Sony hardware platforms redundant.

SD isn't a concept. It's a reality. I'm claiming that if Sony goes down that road to make a PS VITA, it would lose to the Steam Deck - royally.

 

[IntentionalPun]

SD isn't a concept. It's a reality. I'm claiming that if Sony goes down that road to make a PS VITA, it would lose to the Steam Deck - royally.

Of course it's reality; I said it's a cool concept because as I said earlier.. the reality isn't particularly rosey from my experience. It's better in concept than execution, in my opinion.

Mine is a paperweight because I just don't dig the experience that much.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

But some of users will migrate to PC, like a few people I know. So that means more money spent on Steam and less on PS Store.
Someone like me who has spent thousands on PS Store since the PS3, could migrate to PC.

Plus you have to pay the middle man ( Valve ) for Steam sales.

So overall, we’ll have to see if the numbers are worth it.
PC sales VS The % of gamers who will migrate to PC from Playstation And spend their money there. If 5-10% of users like me migrate to PC, PS will lose alot of money then they gain from the PC sales numbers they have shown

This is the big part about the whole PC strategy that everyone has to consider more.

I'm guessing Sony might work out some type of deal with Valve for a lower percentage on Valve's part, but I don't know if they've actually done that and even if so, we know it's still going to be some sizable cut of that PC revenue. However, the bigger issue could be if some X percent of people who buy the 1P games, who also purchased PS+ subs and 3P games on PS, decide to stop doing that, and play online on PC and also buy the 3P games there, too. Oh, and also maybe next time around, don't buy a console altogether.

That can have a pretty negative impact on overall revenue for PS division. The type of people who buy the 1P games probably tend to buy quite a few other games as well, 3P games at that, which means that much more of a 30% cut for Sony from sales of those games on their platform. FY2020, I think 18.5% of all software sales on PS were 1P, but let's just say of that percent, 50% were also responsible for another 25% of the remaining 81.5% (or, 20%).

Imagine what happens if that 9% decide to buy those 3P games on PC instead? Imagine if they already did that in FY2020? It'd of taken PS division from ~ $25 billion revenue to ~19.2 billion, considering if the 50% of the 18.5% purchased the 1P games on PC instead of console and the ones who did so would mean Sony is paying Valve a 30% cut for those PC sales.

What you also see there, though, is a drop of over $5 billion, and that's actually better than the reality because Sony would also be losing some percentage of that revenue from lost PS+ subs, and yet another chunk from lost hardware sales. So that type of strategy in FY2020 could have possibly taken that ~ $25 billion revenue down to as low as ~ $18 billion, a difference of $7 billion.

And that's just the revenue! Point being, to starve that type of effect off they'd need enough extra sales on PC (and enough extra revenue from PS5 copies of the games) to cover the theoretical loss in PS+ revenue, hardware revenue (can also include 1P peripherals) AND the 3P games that'd no longer sell since a portion of the base would be buying them on PC (Steam) now.

That's a lot to ask of. It's part of the reason Sony either has a very special deal worked out with Valve, or if they wanted to accelerate their PC porting strategy (either shortening the window between console and PC, or doing Day 1 for 1P releases altogether), they would need to probably launch their own storefront on PC and find some way to provide both a normal and ad-supported type of model. Tie that storefront to the one for console in some vital areas, push some type of incentive for 3P publishers, find some way to prioritize that storefront over Steam for 1P releases (without outright removing 1P PC ports from Steam), etc. But that is a lot of work, and still carries some of its own risks.

I just find it sad that some people who are calling themself Sony’s fan are obsess with the lost of a few exclusives and point the finger at it as the sole reason for PlayStation alleged struggle.

Multiplayer locked behind a paywall, backward compatibility locked behind another paywall, 79,99€ games, cash grab remake, poor store implementation, paid upgrade, having to rebuy games, missing features from previous gen, micro transactions, Spiderman remastered available as a stand alone on PC but not on PS5, etc...

So many reasons to go “Fuck this and improve that” but instead “Stop porting my old games to PC” is all you hear.

Ridiculous.

TBF, some of these issues also exist with Xbox and Nintendo. You have to pay for online non-F2P on all three platforms. Only pre-PS4 BC is behind a paywall on PS5; although that technically shouldn't be the case for PS1/2/PSP games, I understand on a technical level why there may not be a native PS3 emulator yet. I don't think TLOU Remake is a "cash grab"; it could do a lot more in terms of new content and areas (like RE Remake, RE2 Remake and FFVII Remake do), but they have made some obvious changes and the AI & environmental physics upgrades sound really good for gunplay.

Sony aren't the only ones where you have to rebuy games (Nintendo and Rockstar are the most egregious here); while the GT7 MTX situation has been poor, let's not pretend some of MS's games don't have issues here, just look to Halo Infinite. So I guess one of the reasons why the PC port stuff comes up a lot is because, a lot of the other things are also faults with the other platform holders in one way or another, and they are things that don't feel as much a drift away from the console as the main focus as the PC ports might, for the people where that's the big concern.

Sony have had to ween PS gamers into the idea of PC ports, but it's also just the fact that PS as a brand, historically has not really focused on PC. Yeah, they had a few Psygnosis games go to PC (and even rival consoles) during PS1 but those were probably outstanding contracts being fulfilled, and the PC ports were in no way integral or tied to the PlayStation brand. Then they basically stopped doing PC ports altogether, and it's been that way for practically four console generations.

So obviously the idea will feel foreign and come as a shock to longtime fans, and I think there are some valid concerns with ways that strategy can be handled where the console brand could suffer. I can see the benefits too, of course. But if you think some of these reactions are wild, wait until the day Nintendo ever decides to port games to PC. If that happens, the internet will actually crash and be down for weeks, and salt levels will be unprecedented.

 

[IntentionalPun]

However, the bigger issue could be if some X percent of people who buy the 1P games, who also purchased PS+ subs and 3P games on PS, decide to stop doing that, and play online on PC and also buy the 3P games there, too. Oh, and also maybe next time around, don't buy a console altogether.

I think they think this effect will be minimal. I mean quite obviously they do, based on whatever data they ahve.

Most people forgoing a Playstation because games are coming to PC probably weren't big console gamers in the first place. As a "PC gamer" you buy a playstation for exclusives, those exclusives are largely single player experiences that don't require PS+.

IMO at least.

There's a clear divide between people who "want to play on PC" and people who "don't want to play on PC." The real effect on hardware sales will be to those who do both already.. and those people likely weren't big whales for Sony anyways.

Then of course you have all of the people who would never buy a console.. who are now potential customers, to offset any negative aspects of releasing to PC.

The trade-off is more than worth it based on their calculations.

Could they be wrong? Sure.. but it's not like Sony isn't watching this stuff like a hawk.

They can also... just completely stop their PC ports as a whole, any time they want..

 

[ethomaz]

I think they think this effect will be minimal. I mean quite obviously they do, based on whatever data they ahve.

Most people forgoing a Playstation because games are coming to PC probably weren't big console gamers in the first place. As a "PC gamer" you buy a playstation for exclusives, those exclusives are largely single player experiences that don't require PS+.

IMO at least.

There's a clear divide between people who "want to play on PC" and people who "don't want to play on PC." The real effect on hardware sales will be to those who do both already.. and those people likely weren't big whales for Sony anyways.

Then of course you have all of the people who would never buy a console.. who are now potential customers, to offset any negative aspects of releasing to PC.

The trade-off is more than worth it based on their calculations.

Could they be wrong? Sure.. but it's not like Sony isn't watching this stuff like a hawk.

They can also... just completely stop their PC ports as a whole, any time they want..

100%

I believe Sony has data that back up the PC strategy.
And it not set on stone… Sony choose of games tells me they are testing yet PC strategy… if they find out it is not worth they will just stop to release games on PC… if it works it will continue and increase the releases.

To be fair the chances of continue and be a lucrative experience for Sony is way higher than not working.

I just can’t see how Sony PC strategy can hurt PlayStation… any side I look I can only see increasing engagement, revenue and profit for PlayStation brand.

 

[DynamiteCop]

100%

I believe Sony has data that back up the PC strategy.
And it not set on stone… Sony choose of games tells me they are testing yet PC strategy… if they find out it is not worth they will just stop to release games on PC… if it works it will continue and increase the releases.

To be fair the chances of continue and be a lucrative experience for Sony is way higher than not working.

LOL they're not going to slow down, they're going to accelerate. I'm not saying you but a lot of this talk of Sony reversing their PC push is just delusional fanboy nonsense for people who can't cope with the fact that Sony's releasing games on PC.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Of course it's reality; I said it's a cool concept because as I said earlier.. the reality isn't particularly rosey from my experience. It's better in concept than execution, in my opinion.

Mine is a paperweight because I just don't dig the experience that much.

Are you going to sell your Deck?

 

[Deleted member 13]

LOL they're not going to slow down, they're going to accelerate. I'm not saying you but a lot of this talk of Sony reversing their PC push is just delusional fanboy nonsense for people who can't cope with the fact that Sony's releasing games on PC.

That I agree on. I don't see Sony doing that at all. It's not costing them much money for very good returns.

 

[Midn1ght]

 

[Deleted member 51]

PS : Deck certified