The Doomers and Gloomers, Sony is dying thread.

[Etifilio]

These guys always keep their heads in the sand until it’s too late, they’ll deny it forever and then when it happens they’ll just say “it’s not a big deal”.

they were the ones saying LEGO forced Sony to put LEGO Horizon Adventures on Switch, turns out it was just Sony and Guerrilla who wanted the IP on Switch, once they start publishing on Switch and der growth there they won’t stop, they’ll port back catalog games to Switch 2 for sure and people denying it are just blind to not look at long term, the same thing happened with PC, first they said no game would come to PC ever, then they said games would only come 4 years later, then 2 years… now day one releases for remakes… soon it’ll be day one releases for tentpole games

 

[peter42O]

PlayStation 5/6 will still sell over 100m consoles because it's the "default" console where you basically get every game and for $500 give or take, it's an easy decision to make. Sony putting their games on PC day one or having PlayStation Plus is targeting those who'll never ever buy a console in the first place. PC gamers aren't going to degrade themselves by going to a console and playing via streaming is for those who are casuals at best and not into gaming but will give it a chance and be like, I'll stay subscribed for a few months or so and see it the service is but won't buy a console because for this target audience, it's not worth it. Sony would lose 5-10m console sales at most and it would be more due to the fact that those on console decided to upgrade to PC and get everything there as opposed to being limited on consoles (which all three consoles are) but it wouldn't matter, because Sony would still be making money via software sales on PC and more subscriptions which they wouldn't get from those who aren't buying their console to begin with while still have the few million they lose buying their games on PC. If anything, Sony would grow their platform and eco-system which is far more critical tan any console because every console has an expiration date and as the generations progress, less and less people will buy consoles in general because those who have are getting older and eventually will just be done with gaming in general or console gaming while younger people don't give two shits about consoles so you're not getting them on the console front but if you can manage to snag even a small 5% base of these people via other ways, it's 5% more than what you would have had.

Consoles aren't forever. The future which granted is probably around 2040 give or take, IS streaming. Because it's what Microsoft wants, it's what Sony wants and it's what publishers want. But before that, you'll have two more console generations but will be digital only with if you're lucky a $100 disc drive attachment at best like Sony is doing now. For Sony alone, their digital sales have gone up 21% in the last five years from 59% in 2019 to a whopping 80% in 2024 and this IS only for full base games and excludes micro-transactions, digital only games and dlc/expansions, all of which are digital only anyway.

For Microsoft, their digital ratio is said to be higher than Sony's which I believe to be true because they've wanted all digital since 2013 if not sooner. Microsoft's next console in Fall 2026 will be digital only and Sony's next console in Fall 2028 will be all digital because they BOTH want all digital. Even more so, all the third party publishers want all digital because they will save a shit ton of extra money that they can't save now and at the end of the day, money always wins especially if you're a publicly traded company which they all are.

The only company that will stay "old school" is Nintendo but that's because their tech is a generation (and im being generous here) behind at best, they never take a loss whatsoever as they're literally the Disney of gaming and unlike Microsoft and especially Sony, they don't spend the money that the other two spend.

People really need to get over this console only bullshit because the companies are telling you that they're over it which means if they're over it, their fan base needs to do the same or get left behind. It's either accept this and just enjoy playing the games they're giving you or -

1. Go to PC 100% which will cost you a lot more money if you want a high end power PC
2. Go to Nintendo 100% which few here would probably do because they're not going to give you the $300M blockbusters that you want
3. Quit gaming 100%

Me personally, I have accepted what the gaming industry is becoming and the direction the big two are going in because at the end of the day, it's Microsoft's and Sony's shit, not ours or anyone else's for that matter so you can either do one of the above or you can do what I do - enjoy what both offer and what will be will be.

 

[Etifilio]

PlayStation 5/6 will still sell over 100m consoles because it's the "default" console where you basically get every game and for $500 give or take, it's an easy decision to make. Sony putting their games on PC day one or having PlayStation Plus is targeting those who'll never ever buy a console in the first place. PC gamers aren't going to degrade themselves by going to a console and playing via streaming is for those who are casuals at best and not into gaming but will give it a chance and be like, I'll stay subscribed for a few months or so and see it the service is but won't buy a console because for this target audience, it's not worth it. Sony would lose 5-10m console sales at most and it would be more due to the fact that those on console decided to upgrade to PC and get everything there as opposed to being limited on consoles (which all three consoles are) but it wouldn't matter, because Sony would still be making money via software sales on PC and more subscriptions which they wouldn't get from those who aren't buying their console to begin with while still have the few million they lose buying their games on PC. If anything, Sony would grow their platform and eco-system which is far more critical tan any console because every console has an expiration date and as the generations progress, less and less people will buy consoles in general because those who have are getting older and eventually will just be done with gaming in general or console gaming while younger people don't give two shits about consoles so you're not getting them on the console front but if you can manage to snag even a small 5% base of these people via other ways, it's 5% more than what you would have had.

Consoles aren't forever. The future which granted is probably around 2040 give or take, IS streaming. Because it's what Microsoft wants, it's what Sony wants and it's what publishers want. But before that, you'll have two more console generations but will be digital only with if you're lucky a $100 disc drive attachment at best like Sony is doing now. For Sony alone, their digital sales have gone up 21% in the last five years from 59% in 2019 to a whopping 80% in 2024 and this IS only for full base games and excludes micro-transactions, digital only games and dlc/expansions, all of which are digital only anyway.

For Microsoft, their digital ratio is said to be higher than Sony's which I believe to be true because they've wanted all digital since 2013 if not sooner. Microsoft's next console in Fall 2026 will be digital only and Sony's next console in Fall 2028 will be all digital because they BOTH want all digital. Even more so, all the third party publishers want all digital because they will save a shit ton of extra money that they can't save now and at the end of the day, money always wins especially if you're a publicly traded company which they all are.

The only company that will stay "old school" is Nintendo but that's because their tech is a generation (and im being generous here) behind at best, they never take a loss whatsoever as they're literally the Disney of gaming and unlike Microsoft and especially Sony, they don't spend the money that the other two spend.

People really need to get over this console only bullshit because the companies are telling you that they're over it which means if they're over it, their fan base needs to do the same or get left behind. It's either accept this and just enjoy playing the games they're giving you or -

1. Go to PC 100% which will cost you a lot more money if you want a high end power PC
2. Go to Nintendo 100% which few here would probably do because they're not going to give you the $300M blockbusters that you want
3. Quit gaming 100%

Me personally, I have accepted what the gaming industry is becoming and the direction the big two are going in because at the end of the day, it's Microsoft's and Sony's shit, not ours or anyone else's for that matter so you can either do one of the above or you can do what I do - enjoy what both offer and what will be will be.

PS5 will... PS6 won't... console prices are not going down like they used to, generations will come to an end, PS5 with an SSD and a modern processor from AMD won't stop getting new releases for A LONG TIME, more time than PS4 with its Jaguar that was outdated since the release back in 2013, PS6 will be just a more powerful console, with its own innovations when it comes to controllers and features but won't be a necessary jump, PS6 will wrap the gen with 80M max and will probably be released at $600 and won't have price cuts.

 

[peter42O]

PS5 will... PS6 won't... console prices are not going down like they used to, generations will come to an end, PS5 with an SSD and a modern processor from AMD won't stop getting new releases for A LONG TIME, more time than PS4 with its Jaguar that was outdated since the release back in 2013, PS6 will be just a more powerful console, with its own innovations when it comes to controllers and features but won't be a necessary jump, PS6 will wrap the gen with 80M max and will probably be released at $600 and won't have price cuts.

You actually believe that Sony will lose 40m from it's console install base? No freaking way is that going to happen because 95% of that 40m are not going streaming only and/or spending thousands on a high end PC and that's with PlayStation 6 potentially releasing at $600.

Too many people here look at Xbox and believe that they lost 35m console owners between Xbox 360 (approximately 85m) and Xbox One (approximately 50m) due to putting games on PC when if anything, that kept them alive because you can look at PlayStation 2 (approximately 160m) to PlayStation 3 (approximately 90m) and then factor in Xbox (approximately 25m). Sony lost approximately 70m users while Xbox gained approximately 60m users. And neither were doing anything PC related at the time. This also excludes Wii which had 100m+ user install base yet Wii U was under 15m.

Consumers/gamers left Xbox because Microsoft fucked up horribly in 2013. DRM, digital only, $500, stuck with Kinect and under-powered. While Sony didn't have DRM, supported discs, removed the PS Eye Camera which was going to be packed in with the PS4 but unlike Microsoft was a peripheral as opposed to Kinect being tied to the Xbox One console for some odd reason, released at $400 and was more powerful.

Like the current generation, Microsoft was basically up Sony's ass during PS4/XBO for about two years and fell off a cliff but not because of PC whatsoever but because they kept fucking up over and over along with not having any studios, no roadmap and obviously no games from 2017 onward. Microsoft was up Sony's ass this generation for about 18 months. Once Starfield/Redfall were delayed and they had nothing for 2022 along with the never ending saga of the ABK acquisition, consumers simply said fuck this shit.

Even if Microsoft had never put their games on PC (or PlayStation/Nintendo for that matter) but everything else remained the same, they would still be in the same exact position as they currently are and were last generation. PC gaming are for those who want the ultimate premium shit where they literally have the best of everything as well as MODS, emulation, free online multi-player and their games basically last forever as opposed to console which doesn't have free multi-player, emulation, have to hope the next console is backwards compatible and while Xbox has MODS, it's nowhere near the level or extent that PC offers.

PC is also an open platform where you don't need anyone to license/approve your game for retail on Steam, Epic, etc. plus there's so many different options that a walled garden called a console will never offer. However, it comes at a very steep price and cost that unless you're already a PC gamer, few are going to leave console gaming and if one of the three fuck up, you still have the other two to fall back on.

Everyone wants to believe that because Microsoft releases their games on PC and their console hardware is dying that the same will happen to Sony but the major difference is that Sony hasn't had a shit ton of fuck ups in the last decade like Microsoft has. Again, even if you subtract Microsoft releasing their games on PC/PlayStation/Nintendo, they would still be exactly where they are right now because they've made so many other major mistakes that releasing their games on PC/PlayStation/Nintendo in all honesty is the least of their fuck ups.

Most of all, Sony is quiet (only Nintendo is quieter) and rarely talks where as Microsoft never shuts the fuck up which in turn does far more harm to their Xbox brand than good because their messaging is literally inconsistent and always changing. That's why consumers get fed up with a product/brand/company because they pivot every time you turn around and it's like, fuck that company where as Sony pretty much stays the same. Their direction is the same - granted, expanding but still the same shit at it's core.

 

[ethomaz]

they were the ones saying LEGO forced Sony to put LEGO Horizon Adventures on Switch, turns out it was just Sony and Guerrilla who wanted the IP on Switch, once they start publishing on Switch and der growth there they won’t stop, they’ll port back catalog games to Switch 2 for sure and people denying it are just blind to not look at long term, the same thing happened with PC, first they said no game would come to PC ever, then they said games would only come 4 years later, then 2 years… now day one releases for remakes… soon it’ll be day one releases for tentpole games

Some fix here.

Sony is not putting LEGO Horizon Adventures on Switch.
Like MLB The Show they are not publishing it in the Nintendo platform.
Solutions 2 GO is doing it.

PS. In MLB The Show case it is the MLB Advanced Media that publish it.

 

[peter42O]

MLB, Bungie games and Lego Horizon were all Sony approved when the contracts were signed. At the end of the day, none of this happens without Sony's written consent and approval.

 

[Dick Jones]

MLB, Bungie games and Lego Horizon were all Sony approved when the contracts were signed. At the end of the day, none of this happens without Sony's written consent and approval.

It would be stupid for Sony to give up on the MLB licence. They have a game they can refine each year. To quote Edward Furlong "Easy money."

The lego is part of Sony's aim to show they are more kid friendly. I think Sony will be looking to attack Nintendo's patch next gen. I'd prefer a symbiotic relationship between the two. The console market is only so big that a monopoly could encourage an Amazon, Google or Facebook to enter.

 

[peter42O]

It would be stupid for Sony to give up on the MLB licence. They have a game they can refine each year. To quote Edward Furlong "Easy money."

The lego is part of Sony's aim to show they are more kid friendly. I think Sony will be looking to attack Nintendo's patch next gen. I'd prefer a symbiotic relationship between the two. The console market is only so big that a monopoly could encourage an Amazon, Google or Facebook to enter.

I love Terminator 1 and 2!! The Netflix anime looks pretty good by the way.

Anyway, I wouldn't give up MLB if I was Sony. They agreed to go multi-platform when they renewed the license. They make a shit ton of revenue of it even more so no due to it being multi-platform so no reason whatsoever to get rid of that. That would be stupid on Sony's part plus it's an annual sports game. Like seriously, who cares if it's on other platforms or Game Pass? No one. lol

As for Lego Horizon Adventures, the game has probably been in development for at least 3+ years so the deal was probably done in 2020 give or take. Sony spend a lot of fucking money on their games and the terms they have with Disney/Marvel is insane so they want to get more revenue and releasing their games on other platforms is an easy way to do it. Go to where consumers are. Trying to get consumers to come to you that aren't already with you is a massive mountain to climb. Being on Switch is smart. I do wonder if they delay it to 2025 for Switch 2 and make it cross gen while adding a PlayStation 4 port and yes, even an Xbox port, because if you're making a game multi-platform, just go all the way and do it.

I don't see Amazon, Google (again) or Facebook entering the console market because it's too over-saturated to begin with, isn't actually growing and the cost of investment is way too high in 2024 and will get more expensive as the years progress. I can only see Apple entering the console market because they have the "name/brand" but even then, I put it at a 10% chance of happening for the same reasons I said for the other three. If you enter the console market, you must be willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars, accept that you won't make a profit for a while and be all-in. Anything less, it's just a waste of money and time.

 

[ethomaz]

MLB, Bungie games and Lego Horizon were all Sony approved when the contracts were signed. At the end of the day, none of this happens without Sony's written consent and approval.

At the same time MLB lose features when the multiplatform release.
We can say you have a downgraded version of the game.

 

[peter42O]

At the same time MLB lose features when the multiplatform release.
We can say you have a downgraded version of the game.

All sports games lose features and they've all been multi-platform excluding The Show. It's not because of it being multi-platform, it's because sports are on a nine month dev cycle due to it being an annual release and to include new stuff, old stuff gets removed.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Okay I'm gonna do something crazy and quote a Reset post because this one, while I don't 100% agree with it, actually does have some good insight into modern SIE and why there may be a lot of growing disgruntlement with longtime fans of the brand.

Courtesy of Luckett_X:

I'm going to be complete shotgun harsh here (in that shrapnel is gonna go further than just Concord relevance): the wheels have been off on Playstation's understanding of software dev and where to allocate for a long while now and it's not exactly been getting better. By a long while I'd say you can look to around the PS4 launch even in 2016 when they parted ways with Tequila Works over Rime when it was barely working vaporware. Thats the timeline touchstone that comes up in my head at least. That game eventually came together and out the door, sure, but it started a signal that Sony couldn't sniff out bad faith projects. You can see it again with things like Little Devil Inside, and several other similar projects that grace State Of Plays but are very unlikely things to ever become more than vaporware. You'd think a 30 year veteran company would have this down to something of an art by now, but thats the thing: ain't the same people no more, few veterans left to veteran.

Now vaporware and dead end projects represent the extreme problem, but more of this came about because Sony had a huge brain drain post-Vita when they were desperately trying to balance the books and cut the business down to almost minimum viable product. There's a reason it feels like the PS3 and Vita had better operating systems than everything since. Out went that UI lot, out went the backward compatible lot, out went some management that smell bad projects on the wind, and out went their entire marketing department too. That becomes important when you also puzzle how someone at Sony thought Goodbye Volcano High was State Of Play slot gold. Or that people wouldnt get sick of Deathloop 5 times showing in a row. That's the same sort of person you've got pouring over Concord's design docs and character sheets and saying "this is gold, Jerry! GOLD!!". Paying as much as they did for Bungie, thinking making like 10 of the same GaAs game at the same time made any lateral sense, and everything to do with the PS5 generation being bereft of first party games. Oh and whatever the non-plan was with PSVR2.

So in short its a story as old as time: good people left, stupid people ascended: bon appetit.

Emphasis mine. Now again, I don't agree with everything here and the timetable for some of the bolded parts are quite different than this poster might be thinking. For example the marketing team part; that was a bit more "recent", i.e a couple years ago when the heavy culling there started, not at the start of the PS4 generation. I also guess some would say the PS5 OS is great and compared to Xbox's maybe it is, but there's no denying the PS3's gave you a lot more options if you were into a comprehensive entertainment hub.

Having said that, I do think questions naturally arise when a game like Concord somehow appears to "cut the mustard" and make it all the way to release (and its devs purchased), whereas back in the PS3 & PS4 days Concord as-is would've been rebooted during pre-production if not outright cancelled. And if this is where SIE are placing 60% of their 1P game dev spending towards, then that should naturally lead to some concerns. Which is why, if anything, it'd be preferable if some of those other GAAS have been cancelled after all, though arguably two of the wrong ones were already canned (Factions 2 and Spiderman GAAS).

And again, if there are changes which have been made within SIE that would change a lot of these things for the better, we are probably at least a year or two out from seeing the earliest indication of said changes (so early 2026), at least WRT 1P internally-developed software that's released. OTOH, maybe SIE have more surprises like Astro Bot percolating, which would go a long way to keeping things steady while other 1P teams reorganize in case GAAS plans have changed significantly.

A good string of smaller 1P AA exclusives a la Astro Bot, culling on redundant GAAS plans, netting more 2P deals like Stellar Blade, (intentionally) going for more 3P exclusives/console exclusives like Black Myth Wukong, continuing the various Hero Projects, working with devs (preferably Japanese) on small/AA revivals of classic/legacy IP, making more investments like From Software/Kadokawa/Palworld etc....those should be the focus for SIE over the next year or so.

We'll see if they actually do it, or decide to lean into cheap & lazy avenues for "growth" i.e more and more PC/Steam Day 1 releases, or more GAAS trend-chasing, etc. But needless to say I do genuinely think this and next year will be quite pivotal in determining what direction SIE prioritizes going forward with in gaming.

 

[peter42O]

Personally, I prefer the PS4 and PS5 operating system and dashboard UI over PS3 especially when PS3 had the Cell processor which was still to this day, a dumb ass decision because it completely fucked up their backwards compatibility and instead of being able to play PS3 games on your PS5, you can't unless they re-work the code and remaster it which leads to them charging consumers for it when it reality, it should be free if you already own it since you would be able to play it on PS4/PS5.

I don't get the Rime or Little Devil Inside (this looks awesome though) issues because they're Indies and if anything, games in the Indie are far more risk taking, unique, original and innovative than anything in the AAA space which are basically the same formulaic games that you've played the last two generations but better looking. They also are cheaper to get deals with and fill out gaps.

Concord is a mediocre game simply because it's doing what a billion other games do but do better than Concord. Add in the horrible character designs thanks to DEI bullshit and then add the $40 price tag on top of it when it should have been free to play. Sony trying to charge money for these games like they're Nintendo (lmfao) is completely devoid of any logic or sense because it's not 2004, it's 2024 and the landscape for these games is simply far beyond what a Concord offers especially when Sony is charging $40 for it.

I do agree that it probably should have been cancelled by my guess is that after Sony acquired Bungie, they gave them a thumbs up for Concord because let's be honest, no matter how bad Bungie is right now especially with management, Concord was never going to be a threat, however, a Factions or Spider Man for sure from Naughty Dog/Insomniac respectively definitely are threats based on just the IP's alone which leads to people being interested in them even before you see the game.

It's not that Sony's live service direction is bad, it's that they're making the wrong decisions in regards to those games. Concord not being free to play is the biggest one for that game. Helldivers 2 which stormed out of the gate got hurt by Sony being insistent in regards to signing up for a PSN account which again, is the wrong decision because they're sacrificing potentially millions of sales due to the game not being sold in regions that doesn't have PSN which makes no fucking logical sense. The reason why Microsoft is going more multi-platform has to do with one fucking thing - to get more fucking consumers playing their games and in turn making more money off of them. You can't get that if you're limiting/restricting how people can get access to your games.

Astro Bot is a great decision but also very predictable because what else was Team Asobi going to do? Games like Stellar Blade and whatnot are great because they're studios making their first console game so that makes sense even though they all shouldn't accept a deal unless it includes PC day one especially for a game like Stellar Blade because modding alone will sell more copies on PC than PlayStation. The China/India/etc. hero projects are good but they're also smaller AA titles. Like Indies, they're meant to fill the gaps.

Black Myth Wukong is available exclusively console wise on PlayStation 5 but Sony doesn't have any type of deal in place for the game. Sony is simply taking advantage of the developer's situation in regards to Xbox. Also, it's going to be harder to get major publishers to accept an exclusivity deal. Games cost too much money and take too long nowadays to limit the consumer base that would have access to your games. Again, it's all about access. Not only that but people need to be honest with themselves. People love touting that games sell on PlayStation. There's just one problem, the vast majority of games that sell are either A) the live service games which sell everywhere, B) the annual games which are basically live service games and the massive games like COD, GTA, a Hogwarts Legacy, etc.

Most games outside of that criteria don't sell shit on consoles so for a third party publisher to accept an exclusivity deal is going to become less and less as the years progress because it's simply not worth it unless you're literally getting paid $300M to fund and market the game which that's not happening. Sony's major games/IP's sell the first two months or so, then fall off a cliff because those who wanted it bought it already and those who don't either A) don't care or B) will wait for a sale because they know it's a one and done game.

People need to start accepting that now in 2024 and soon to be 2025, it's not about getting consumers to your console, it's about getting consumers into your eco-system and you accomplish that by making it as easy as possible to access your games and content and you accomplish that by going where consumers are already at which is mobile via cell phones and tablets as well as PC and eventually cloud streaming. Mobile gaming is the biggest aspect of gaming period and the reason why is simple - it's because nearly every human beig on the planet has a cell phone and thus, they have access to all these games and content. Add in Smart TV's where you can just stream games and only need a controller to play them is another way that people do consumer games and content.

Sony isn't stopping or slowing down their PC initiative and if anything, have already sped it up twice. It's a huge fucking market of consumers that are not going to buy a console and as has been seen by Helldivers 2 and while nothing to do with Sony, Black Myth Wukong, PC is where there's so much potential growth if you release games their day one at a good price or free to play depending on what the game/genre is.

At the end of the day, if a consumer can't access your games and content the way they want to where they want to, you're not getting that consumer.

 

[Remember_Spinal]

Forum is already more peaceful did something change around here?

 

[Gediminas]

Forum is already more peaceful did something change around here?

Trash is out?
Some really happened..

 

[Sircaw]

Forum is already more peaceful did something change around here?

 

[Danja]

Can't get rid of a Concord player, the biggest GOTY on this forum this year based on interaction metrics

 

[voke]

These guys always keep their heads in the sand until it’s too late, they’ll deny it forever and then when it happens they’ll just say “it’s not a big deal”.

Just saw this dudes post, listing me as one of his enemies that made him leave the forum.... very satisfying I must say. Iconera just gained massive aura points

 

[voke]

Honestly the dude sips MS kool aid but he's nowhere near as bad as the former

 

[Remember_Spinal]

Just saw this dudes post, listing me as one of his enemies that made him leave the forum.... very satisfying I must say. Iconera just gained massive aura points

#enemiesofjah

 

[On Demand]

Forum is already more peaceful did something change around here?

Don’t get too excited. I’ll gladly let it be known how worthless this company has become.

No showcase in years, no new game announcements. These fucks are getting too comfortable.