PC ports can’t be stopped fast enough. Such a pointless devaluing thing to do.
There’s no mention of PC ports in Sony's latest financial report
- Thread starter Puff
- Start date
Not necessarily. Less incentive to buy consoles-less consoles sales-less market share-less revenue-less resources to invest in new console projects.
Not to mention all resources spent on the ports. ND had to take time off of their own projects to help out with TLOU1 port.
HFW was quite buggier at release than Zero Dawn, and I say that as someone who was still immensely impressed enough with HFW to buy it a couple weeks after release. Spiderman 2? Same deal, quite buggier than Spiderman 2018 at launch.
As for initial sales performances...well what we're seeing, even evidenced with TOTK, is that big sequels are seemingly becoming more frontloaded and, on average, have gradually weaker tails than previous entries. Although, this really depends on the game/IP. TOTK for example will still have a very strong, evergreen tail, plus it'll get a big surge in sales when the inevitable Switch 2 upgrade comes out at full price because that's Nintendo for 'ya.
However, we saw HFW go into PS+ quicker than HZD ever did. We don't know what Spiderman 2's tail will look like just yet but it will have slight external factors like general MCU fatigue affecting it, plus possibly larger external factors like an expediated PC port window (compared to Spiderman 2018), which can also affect the console tail-end, not to mention quicker drop into PS+ as another potential influence on the tail.
Correction: he did not literally say it was his decision to bring the big marquee games to PC. He just said it was his idea to start bringing PlayStation content to PC. That runs the gamut of many different things, and when he was there, he didn't port any of the big marquee releases during his tenure. He might've approved HZD, but that port came more than 3 years later.
What's more in that interview (which I saw when it originally went up, but watching that part again for clarification), you can tell his idea was to manage the ports so as to act as advertisement to PC gamers so they are lured to buy a PlayStation for the "full experience". You don't accomplish that with Jim Ryan's implementation, which is to seemingly bring all the big games to PC 1-2 years after console. Because with Jim Ryan's implementation of that idea, you aren't providing a sampling tease for PC gamers to buy the console. You're outright giving them the full-course meal just slightly later, but with more features and benefits, and if the PC crowd are patient enough to not even buy the console, they'd have the patience to hold out for the inevitable PC port of your game.
So ironically, Jim Ryan's implementation was self-defeating, and counter Shawn Layden's expressed intention of the very same strategy. I don't even think Shawn's idea was to port all the games, but very select ones. You can say SIE have maintained that because games like Demon's Souls Remake aren't on PC yet, but I still clearly remember the PC port was directly advertised in the initial reveal trailer back in 2020. The outcry over that was probably enough to make SIE drop plans for that port, at least for the time, but at the current pace of things it's probably only a matter of time.
Yes they'd do this of course but, in relation to the current PC porting strategy, I'd say the expansion has created results with room for doubt, at best.
Whatever the reason was Sony decided to oust Shawn Layden, I'm sure we'll get a true accounting for that sometime in the future. I'm more interested at this point with Jim Ryan's departure; yes he's reaching retirement age, but I'd think if this guy helped lead PlayStation to its most profitable and highest revenue-generating period in history you'd want to keep them around? Maybe they feel they can drop in a qualified person picking up his gameplan and continue the streak.
But one thing I know about CEOs (and I don't know very much, FWIW), is that the new one tends to bring their own management style to the place they end up at, and try replicating what worked for them at their previous place. Basically, if Jim Ryan's got a gameplan then the new CEO won't follow it 100%. However, if the new person comes from a closely adjacent part of SIE or Sony then they will likely follow it more closely, than if the CEO is someone brought in from outside the company (or especially from a completely different industry altogether).
Of course that doesn't always necessarily mean a bad thing, it would depend on what Ryan's gameplan was, then assessing which parts to keep and which to discard, then determine if the new person coming in has a fresh enough take to replace what's discarded while still working well with what is to be kept. So on and so forth.
But Spiderman 2 will look and play better on the PC. Why would I want to buy a PS5 just to play SM2 when I can wait a couple of years and get it with all features and runs much better? That would be a waste of money. Especially if Insomniac starts putting in RT shadows and RT AO into the game like they did with Ratchet.
Perfectly reasonable and for people like yourself Nixxes will make a great port with all bells and whistles for you to try.
This is exactly why the current PC strategy is damaging to the console long-term. Layden just did it as a tease for PC with a game here and there, and many years after initial availability on console. Feed them a bit here and there, irregular cadence, and it may tempt them to buy a console.
Ryan has basically conditioned PC gamers that ports of the big non-GaaS PS 1P titles is a question of "when", not "if", and now they know that at most it'll be two years. If the PC gamer has the patience to not buy a PS5, they will have zero problem waiting two years to pick the game up for cheap off Steam, and that's assuming their gaming time isn't pre-occupied with OTHER games by the time the port comes along.
Ironically, SIE have devalued their own ports to PC by creating/conditioning that expectation. And, the "solution" some want to throw out that would address this, Day 1 on PC, would be the quickest way to do long-term damage to PlayStation console sales (especially in the initial early phase of new platform availability), 3P sales on console, MTX/DLC revenue and subscription revenue.
And for what, exactly? Maybe a 30% - 50% bump in PC sales overall? A 50% increase over a paltry (by comparison to console side) $250 million is effectively nothing considering what could be lost in the trade. That would be nowhere near enough to balance out the dropoff from the enthusiasts in the console ecosystem who will shift their buying habits to PC, and no place would SIE feel it worst than at the start of PS6, though they could start seeing the effects of that now with PS5 Pro.
Hell, it's arguable that the slag in PSVR2 sales is in part because most of the enthusiasts who'd of bought one see less a reason if most 1P releases aren't leveraging the hardware because that focus is perhaps shifting towards PC ports instead.
Remove Switch and Xbox.According to Sony, SIE's first party games in non-PS platforms (as I remember PC + MLB Switch + Destiny 2 & MLB XBox), made 67725M yen ($446,99M) in FY22. And 37178M yen ($245,37M) in H1 FY23, 54.38% up YoY vs H1 FY22.
So they did $692.36M in a year and a half:
They reported in this quarterly report what they report in the quarterly reports (less detailed than the yearly reports): the revenue of each segment. Bungie, like all the other fully owned SIE subsidiaries, is reported together with the rest of the fully owned subsidiaries in the SIE fiscal reports.
Starting in the previous quarter, they moved the SIE game sales made outside PS (so mostly PC) away from the "others" segment (which now is mostly accesories) to become the "other software" segment. They also adapted the FY22 quarters to this new method in the table.
Regarding specifically PC games, pretty likely the $50M they missed of their forecast for FY22 were due to the delay of Returnal PC and TLOU1 PC, which ended being released at the very end of the FY22. So pretty likely they moved these $50M to their FY23 estimate.
We also have to consider this $250M figure includes Bungie since their acquisition was completed (July 15 2022), so it doesn't include Bungie's PC sales for Q1 FY22 and a small portion of Q2 FY22, which may have (or maybe not) been added to the Q2 FY23 report table posted below. This slide is from their yearly Business Segments Report 2023 published late May 2023, when won't post their next yearly Business Segments report until May 2024:
For the PS Studios single player games being ported to PC (not all of the PS Studios catalog), Hermen said that they are happy with their current delay from the original PS release, which is around 2 years or more. Or in case of remasters/remakes, maybe closer to the remaster/remake (not the original game) release of around a year.
Regarding GaaS, he said it will depend on the game but that they considered that some GaaS may release day one on PC (case of all Bungie games, which also will be released day one on Xbox, and also maybe the case of some other GaaS game that -at least started- as 2nd party).
And you have what is included in PC $250 million.
PC all revenue including Destiny and MLB was $250m in FY22.
Thank god for that. PC is not where the money is. Jim Ryan's entire tenure is about to be over and playstation still has no mobile strategy, while their peers Sega, Take Two, and MS have all acquired large mobile companies. That's where the real money is and where they can grow their IP's to casuals.
MLB isn't on PC. It's on Xbox and Switch.
PC includes all the first party PS games released on PC and Destiny 2.
Yeah mobile is where the real money is, PC has like 100 million players at most if we are being generous while mobile has billions
From 2023 CGWP(Official numbers provided by Japan vg companies)
20m units shipped
PS5: 3.64m
XBS: 3.04m
PS4: 2.67m
XBO: under 1m
PC: ~10m
GIve a link.
This was from U.K
Elden Ring is the biggest non-FIFA or Call of Duty launch since Red Dead Redemption 2 | UK Digital Charts
Elden Ring is the biggest UK video game launch since Call of Duty: Vanguard, according to the latest digital and physic…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Elden Ring is the biggest new IP since The Division | European Monthly Charts
Elden Ring is Europe's biggest new games IP since The Division in 2016, and the biggest game launch since Call of Duty:…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Last edited:
GIve a link.
This was from U.K
Elden Ring is the biggest non-FIFA or Call of Duty launch since Red Dead Redemption 2 | UK Digital Charts
Elden Ring is the biggest UK video game launch since Call of Duty: Vanguard, according to the latest digital and physic…
This was EuropeElden Ring is the biggest new IP since The Division | European Monthly Charts
Elden Ring is Europe's biggest new games IP since The Division in 2016, and the biggest game launch since Call of Duty:…
2023 CESA Games White Paper
Are you interested in some sales data? https://www.cesa.or.jp/information/release/202307310945.html Updated Domestic Million Shipment Titles(As of December 2022): Animal Crossing New Horizon -10.61m Pokemon Scarlet/Violet-6.94m Mario Kart 8 Deluxe-6.84m Splatoon 3-6.32m Yo-kai Watch 2 Bony...
www.google.com
That Sony graph says that in the $250M Bungie is included since it's acquisition, so Destiny 2 PC in FY22 isn't included until July. They never released MLB on PC. PC is available on PS, XB, Switch.
Destiny 2 now is first party too, Sony fully acquired Bungie. Regarding MLB, Sony doesn't publish it on Xbox and Switch and doesn't own the IP, so won't get most of the revenue made there.
He mentions in the video that he and his team started to work on the PC ports before he left.
What he says it the same Hermen and Jim did say and what they are doing until now: plans are to port some of -not all- their games, and to don't release them day one on PC (later when acquired Bungie and added the GaaS to the mix Hermen, changed to say that some GaaS may be released day one on PC, as would be the case of all Bungie games). Jim or Hermen never said that their plans are to release all Sony games on PC.
Shawn, as Hermen and Jim, mentions that the idea of PC ports is to mainly reach the players who never would want or won't be able to buy a console or a PlayStation. There are some huge markets like Asia outside Japan or Latin America where Sony wants to grow, and there for different reasons consoles aren't a thing so it's very difficult to grow via PlayStation games so Sony will partly address these countries via PC and mobile, which is what mainly works there. The idea with the ports is to reach players who aren't into console, to expand their reach.
Jim Ryan's implementation isn't self defeating because all hardware and software console metrics keep improving every year and the PC revenue also keeps improving every year. SIE games made $692.36M outside PS in the last year and a half plus keeps growing. Jim Ryan's implementation made their console hardware and software business grow, made their 1st party games sell more than ever in console and on top of that, also generate hundreds of millions per year more outside PS. So it's successful strategy in every single way.
Shawn decided to leave, according to him because he was getting burn out and his job was 'a young person's activity'. Jim Ryan decided to retire because he said that being constantly flying between EU, USA and Japan was affecting him due to his age.
I assume the next CEO will do what Jim Ryan and the previous CEOs did, and the same than new CEOs do in super successful market leader companies as SIE is:
To stick to the previous strategy that was working perfectly, to keep doing mostly the same but with some minor tweaks. To continue doubling down in the areas where they are successful, to tweak things that are working well but have room for improvement and to find or invest more in new areas where they can grow.
Particularly, I think the new CEO will continue doing the strategy of Jimbo of investing more than ever in all areas. And his new areas of growth I think will be a couple that were already planned and in the works at Sony even more than 10 years ago, way before Jim: first mobile gaming, and second to expand PS game streaming to smartphones, tablets and smart tvs. And probably to do it with an unified PSN store for console, PC and mobile using a single PSN user account for all 3 platforms.
He also may double down on chasing growth specially on Asia (particularly outside Japan, specially in China, India and Korea) and after that Latin America because they are the faster growing areas of the world and where Sony has a particularly weak presence in terms of gaming (I can see the Latin America Hero Project).
All this while also obviously growing their traditional markets of console gaming, hiring to grow their existing first party teams and to continue acquiring new ones.
$250 million for PC includes Destiny 2.
Sony told us it includes Destiny 2's revenue.
It is all first-party.
But hey let's ignore Sony and do maths.
Spider-man PC.... 1.5 million copies accounts for $52million and that was the best selling game on PC in FY22.
TLOU PC did less than $15.5 million ($15.5m includes April 23 sales).
Do you understand now?
From $250 million I guess over $100 million is Destiny 2... perhaps $120-130 million or maybe even more.
What I understand is that your personal guess is that Spider-Man was the best selling game on PC in FY22 having nothing to back this. You also make a personal guess to say Destiny 2 PC did $100-$130M of the $250M again having nothing to back this. These are just personal guesses, not maths.
A few facts using maths:
These Spider-Man tracked numbers cover 8 months and a half -including a Christmas season in the middle-of sales and the TLOU covers only less than a month (3 days inside FY22 counting for the $250M).
As of now, 7 months and a half after release -with no Christmas season in the middle- TLOU has 41339 reviews (which with the x25 estimate method would mean around 1.03M units sold LTD).
Destiny 2 PC revenue included in the $250M only are counted since Bungie acquisition was completed, July 16, 2022. In FY2023 will be counted instead for the whole FY.
As of now, Spider-Man has 81521 reviews (x25 estimate of around 2.04M units sold LTD), GoW PC has 112470 reviews (x25 estimate of around 2.81M units sold LTD), HZD PC has 102315 reviews (x25 estimate of 2.56M), Days Gone PC has 69246 reviews (x25 estimate of around 1.73M).
So my personal guess:
Pretty likely TLOU PC and Spider-Man PC after their first Christmas season and launch aligned with the same number of months they will have pretty similar sales numbers, with TLOU likely a bit under Spider-Man.
Last edited:
I am not so sure about Sony porting those games to PC to get in the latin american market. Outside Mexico, Latin America is as Sony land as Spain Portugal of Italy. Even more because the region is less catered to than western Europe (lack of regional prices, PS now, you name it)
For east Asia outside Japan and India I totally agree it makes sense.
For east Asia outside Japan and India I totally agree it makes sense.
As I remember the issue with Latin America more than lack of brand awareness or popularity issues were several country specific issues that prevented many people to buy consoles. Stuff like some crazy taxes for things like console hardware in Brazil that make them too expensive for most people, or things like crazy inflation or other economical issues in countries like Argentina (or Cuba with the economical block) that were making people too poor.
That prevented modern consoles to don't sell proportionally as they do in the main console markets (USA, Germany, France, UK, Japan, Canada, Spain...), so in these markets the percent of people who play on mobile or PC (particularly F2P/GaaS) is way bigger than already is in the top console markets.
And well, same can be applied to several Asian countries.