Phil Spencer admits defeat in console space, and doesn't think great games would help Xbox's market share.

Yurinka

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Shouldn't they focus on making their games better before trying to beat Sony 2:1?
He didn't say that they try to beat Sony 2:1, and he said that they should do their games better and that things like Redfall shouldn't have happened even if games like Redfall started before being acquired, since that doesn't justify it because he thinks they should have helped them to improve it enough, and not only with giving them extra time to fix a few bugs or implement the 60fps mode but making structural game changes to make it better and helping them with Coalition, Rare or whoever needed to excel tech wise using Unreal.

The problem is he's wrong. If Playstation put out a single banger and then expected to coast the entire gen nobody would be sticking to their ecosystem either. Playstation has a whole pipeline of products designed specifically to keep them at the top.

I bought a ps4 for a single game. I bought a ps5 because I knew there would be more where that came from.

Xbox doesn't have that "single game" to get me to buy an xbox (and given their shitty UI and ads, even if I did I'd just buy it on steam). And they don't have the games to keep me there even if they did have that one game.

If they announced tomorrow that Unknown Worlds was making Natural Selection 3 exclusive to xbox, I'd be looking up when I'd need to have $500 ready. Phil simply has gotten the wrong idea because he has no taste in games and can't identify what makes them good or not.
I know, and he too. The thing is that every gamer has its own tastes and that special game is different for each player.

And PS has a gazillion good (not even great) games that aren't available in Xbox. While Xbox has a way smaller amount of good games that aren't available on PS. Same goes with Nintendo.

He means that the difference is so big that for making a few great exclusive games more things would improve on Xbox, and that they want to make good games and acknowledge that they overpromised and underdelivered and that they should fix it, but that to make some great games more wouldn't turn the tables dramatically as some people say in the consoles share war.

And in any case this isn't what they are looking for, their goal isn't to ousell Nintendo and MS in consoles by a large margin. It's instead to grow their ecosystem that doesn't only involve their console, but also PC, mobile, GP and xCloud.
 
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ARCANE

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Maybe another award will cheer Phil up

Carrie Underwood Speech GIF by CMT Artists of the Year

YES a CMA jab reference
 

Kokoloko

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Come on guys, this is passive aggressive Phil here, the slimy MS dna.
He’s acting like he doesnt want to compete, yet him and his company paid almost 100billion to buy Bethesda and Activision and to keep it off there rival Playstation consoles….

Years worth of Gamepass praise and media shills hyping it so that the competition ( Playstation) was looked like the bad guys when they didnt do the same, knowing Xbox could afford gamepass only because of MS money.

Plus his boss said this.


They want to compete, truth is they arent good enough, and money cant always buy you success. If the Acitivsion deal went through good guy Phil would have a different tone right now and keeping Bethesda games off PS is a clear sign of what would of happened.
 

Swift_Star

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I dunno you love Benji or not ( well, i don't like him very much ), but he has interensting takes and he literally denying what Phil Spencer said in this video from a seller view. Well, worth watching :

Will I gotta say, he is on point. If Phil is not doing his lying routine and being genuine, it just shows how shortsighted he is. People really don’t need to abandon PlayStation for Xbox to sell, but right now they haven’t made anything to convince me to cash out $200~$500 on a Xbox. And no Starfield will do that for me.
I’ve said it before and it got me banned of era and I’ll say it again: I never liked Bethesda games and I believe most console gamers don’t care about them either. 🤷🏻‍♂️ MS have to focus on games console gamers like.
 

Swolf712

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He didn't say that they try to beat Sony 2:1, and he said that they should do their games better and that things like Redfall shouldn't have happened even if games like Redfall started before being acquired, since that doesn't justify it because he thinks they should have helped them to improve it enough, and not only with giving them extra time to fix a few bugs or implement the 60fps mode but making structural game changes to make it better and helping them with Coalition, Rare or whoever needed to excel tech wise using Unreal.


I know, and he too. The thing is that every gamer has its own tastes and that special game is different for each player.

And PS has a gazillion good (not even great) games that aren't available in Xbox. While Xbox has a way smaller amount of good games that aren't available on PS. Same goes with Nintendo.

He means that the difference is so big that for making a few great exclusive games more things would improve on Xbox, and that they want to make good games and acknowledge that they overpromised and underdelivered and that they should fix it, but that to make some great games more wouldn't turn the tables dramatically as some people say in the consoles share war.

And in any case this isn't what they are looking for, their goal isn't to ousell Nintendo and MS in consoles by a large margin. It's instead to grow their ecosystem that doesn't only involve their console, but also PC, mobile, GP and xCloud.
I'm sorry, that reeks of excuse-making. No, it won't instantly turn things around. Xbox, when it started, didn't magically leap ahead in the console space either.

What helped them "win" (at least in terms of popular perception anyways) with the 360 was a very aggressive push on games. Exclusive games. High-quality games. Games you couldn't get on PlayStation. Games that had content you got early on Xbox. Etc. It really, really improved their standing despite being absolutely dead-last the gen before.

And ironically, the same happened to help the PS3 claw its way back from failure. A focus on producing good, high-quality, blockbuster first-party games, trying to make each one feel like an event not to be missed. Uncharted, inFamous, The Last of Us, God of War 3. Games that were unique and couldn't be found elsewhere like LittleBigPlanet. Games that covered staples that families and teens loved like Ratchet & Clank, Resistance, Sly Cooper. This, and their increased efforts to minimize the difficulty for third parties to develop for their platform, are what allowed them their massive comeback at the end of the gen.

Are games the SOLE factor? No. Are they one very important factor, and an investment that will require time and patience? Yes.

Sounds to me like the MS shareholders or Satya do not have said patience, however, which would mean that even with Phil gone, things are unlikely to change, sadly. There needs to be a whole culture shift at Microsoft in terms of how they view that division if they ever want it to return to its peak.

EDIT: I'm also not at all sure why Phil seems to think that people need to trade in their PlayStations or sell them and get an Xbox to improve their market share. This isn't an all-or-nothing market, and many people will own a second or even third (or fourth now, with the Steam Deck) console for gaming, so long as there are games they're interested in. Games that make them feel like the purchase is worth it. Just giving up and trying to pivot the entire industry to something else (whether the industry likes it or not) in order to try to get in on the ground floor there and corner that market early just reeks of both arrogance and a lack of confidence in existing product, and that they think the sole way to further push that and prop it up is via buying out huge chunks of the industry to force their vision is rather telling.

Bear in mind, Activision themselves have admitted they'd NEVER consider Day-and-Date on streaming services. Never. It would cannibalize their sales, and make no business sense. Take-Two have come out with that same stance as well. Makes no sense for them. With some of the biggest publishers pushing back on this, it hurts their "future of gaming" narrative. And they NEED that now. NO faith in the Xbox brand as-is. That's why they're so all-in on GP. But GP isn't expanding as they'd hoped. So what are they doing? Buying entire publishers, including the biggest third-party in gaming, and trying to force them into this service. FORCE the future they NEED for their brand now.

This entire situation is just so short-sighted and sad.
 
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DForce

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Things Xbox fanboys have said during this generation

Early 2020 - "Xbox is firing on all cylinders. You're prepared to compete against Sony during the next generation."
Late 2020 - "Microsoft finally has studios. They're going to be a major threat this generation."
Late 2020 - "PlayStation 4 barely had any games within the first 3 years. Microsoft will be ok."
Early 2022 - "Sony is in trouble. The Xbox has no games narrative is dead. Microsoft is making aggressive moves with acquisitions and nothing is going to stop them."
Mid 2022 - "Xbox Series S was a great decision by Microsoft. It's outselling PlayStation 5 in North America and in the UK. It's even doing better in Japan"

Now
- ABK deak will likely fail.
- They have yet to release a major exclusive to attract gamers since Forza Horizon 4.
- Now Phil's words today.

I think Xbox has put out some good games this generation in Hi-Fi Rush, Deathloop, Forza Horizon 4, and Pentiment - but these titles don't hold a candle to what Sony and Nintendo are doing when it comes to attracting gamers to their platform.
 

flaccidsnake

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One tidbit that came up in the KindaFunny recap is that Spencer said Redfall was *further along than Starfield* at the time of the Bethesda acquisition. How can this be true!? And also what does it say about the state of Starfield for this year?
 

kyliethicc

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One tidbit that came up in the KindaFunny recap is that Spencer said Redfall was *further along than Starfield* at the time of the Bethesda acquisition. How can this be true!? And also what does it say about the state of Starfield for this year?
means its probably getting delayed to 2024 lol
 
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Yurinka

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What helped them "win" (at least in terms of popular perception anyways) with the 360 was a very aggressive push on games. Exclusive games. High-quality games. Games you couldn't get on PlayStation. Games that had content you got early on Xbox. Etc. It really, really improved their standing despite being absolutely dead-last the gen before.
Well, these exclusive games happened because PS3 was released almost 2 years later and was very difficult to develop for, so some devs only made the Xbox version at launch because PS3 still wasn't ready, or at least their engine still didn't support well.

Also, even if launch aligned PS3 sold faster than 360, since it started later during some time had a worse start and the marketshare was split. Also, the AAA budgets had increased a lot vs previous gen. So many AAA games that until then were exclusive went multi because devs needed extra revenue.

PS3 also had many other issues as being too expensive etc, all of which benefited Xbox. Also, the early exclusives for PS3 did suck and MS was lucky with the early exclusives they signed/got.

Later PS3 started to fix their issues and made a comeback that ended outselling the 360. I think that if 360 did a good job in the first half was in a part thanks to a good job in MS side, but specially due to the PS failures.

And Sony did learn from these failures, fixed them and didn't repeat them again with PS4 and PS5. They are killing it since then, performing better than ever. To fight the Sony of the PS5, stronger than ever, has nothing to do with the messy Sony of the PS3.

And ironically, the same happened to help the PS3 claw its way back from failure. A focus on producing good, high-quality, blockbuster first-party games, trying to make each one feel like an event not to be missed. Uncharted, inFamous, The Last of Us, God of War 3. Games that were unique and couldn't be found elsewhere like LittleBigPlanet. Games that covered staples that families and teens loved like Ratchet & Clank, Resistance, Sly Cooper. This, and their increased efforts to minimize the difficulty for third parties to develop for their platform, are what allowed them their massive comeback at the end of the gen.

Are games the SOLE factor? No. Are they one very important factor, and an investment that will require time and patience? Yes.

Sounds to me like the MS shareholders or Satya do not have said patience, however, which would mean that even with Phil gone, things are unlikely to change, sadly. There needs to be a whole culture shift at Microsoft in terms of how they view that division if they ever want it to return to its peak.
In the case of the PS3 comeback there were more factors in the comeback, like reducing costs to reduce price and improving things like their PSN/online to basically (almost) match what Xbox had.

But yes, the main reason of the comeback I think it was the release of many quality exclusives. I also remember Journey.

I agree, AAA games and to build teams require time and patience, many years. And MS is having patience with their gaming division, they have been over 20 years generating loses and still investing dozens of billions on it.

EDIT: I'm also not at all sure why Phil seems to think that people need to trade in their PlayStations or sell them and get an Xbox to improve their market share.
He didn't say that. He said that some people (fans) talk as if they would release some quality games the console wars would radically change and then they'd be the ones dominating. He -being realistic and honest- thinks it wouldn't be the case and that in any case their goal isn't to sell more consoles than their competition.

This isn't an all-or-nothing market, and many people will own a second or even third (or fourth now, with the Steam Deck) console for gaming, so long as there are games they're interested in. Games that make them feel like the purchase is worth it. Just giving up and trying to pivot the entire industry to something else (whether the industry likes it or not) in order to try to get in on the ground floor there and corner that market early just reeks of both arrogance and a lack of confidence in existing product, and that they think the sole way to further push that and prop it up is via buying out huge chunks of the industry to force their vision is rather telling.
He didn't give up, he only has been honest admitting that their direct competition dominates them and that to release some great games won't dramatically turn tables making them the ones dominating or that would make them sell their PS5 because this is not how things work.

He also never said people only owns a single console, in fact he mentioned things he's enjoying now he mentioned to play certain game that I don't remember in the Steamdeck.

Bear in mind, Activision themselves have admitted they'd NEVER consider Day-and-Date on streaming services. Never. It would cannibalize their sales, and make no business sense. Take-Two have come out with that same stance as well. Makes no sense for them. With some of the biggest publishers pushing back on this, it hurts their "future of gaming" narrative. And they NEED that now. NO faith in the Xbox brand as-is. That's why they're so all-in on GP. But GP isn't expanding as they'd hoped. So what are they doing? Buying entire publishers, including the biggest third-party in gaming, and trying to force them into this service. FORCE the future they NEED for their brand now.

This entire situation is just so short-sighted and sad.
To include AAA games day one on a subscription doesn't make finantial sense. It's a finantial suicide for the platform holder that pays the games included there to the publishers.

MS never publicly admitted but this is why MS does it, because they wanted to highly grow in the game subs because nobody else has the money to do it without going bankrupt. They wanted to grow it to the point it of becoming the Netflix/Spotify of gaming to the point it would kill the business of selling games and most rival game subs.

But guess what, this isn't happening. They realized that only a portion of their fans are the ones paying for the game sub, and got stuck at around 25M. Not even acquiring Bethesda and announcing that they were going to acquire ABK did help them go beyond that.

Meanwhile their direct competitor, who has over twice the market share, MAU, console sales also have around twice the game subs, and without needing to put there their games day one. Basically because they have a way wider catalog of great games, specially legacy ones. And because they started to build their game subs and cloud gaming before than, so not only have more games there, but also a bigger userbase even before starting this gen.

I think their 'day one on GP' strategy, focusing on GP and their nonsensical GP ambitions is their biggest mistake. I think they focus on game subs because they saw that can't compete selling consoles or games, so could try here to see if they get lucky and get their Netflix/Spotify, and also because in terms of marketing/PR the Xbox cloud gaming helps them to crosspromote it with Azure.
 
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Swolf712

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He didn't say that. He said that some people (fans) talk as if they would release some quality games the console wars would radically change and then they'd be the ones dominating. He -being realistic and honest- thinks it wouldn't be the case and that in any case their goal isn't to sell more consoles than their competition.
I'm gonna have to disagree. Phil rather explicitly framed that as a response to CRITICISM, not fanboyism, that all they need is to make great games and gamers will come. He then introduced the criteria of "selling their PS5 for an Xbox" or a complete market share flip. That sounds more like what his interpretation or metric is, and it's never been what his critics suggested. Simply that they would sell more consoles if they were just to focus on games.

Fanboys who console war are far more vested in them closing that ABK deal and/or making other acquisitions than in screaming at Phil to make better games. In fact, they hand him constant excuses. I highly doubt that's who he was aiming that at.
 
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he said that they should do their games better and that things like Redfall shouldn't have happened
Isn't Spencer the one responsible for Xbox? He's the one who chooses when the game releases or not. It sounds kind of scummy for the guy to say "I shouldn't have released redfall" in a weasely, roundabout fashion. He should just admit he was wrong.
 
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Yurinka

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Isn't Spencer the one responsible for Xbox? He's the one who chooses when the game releases or not. It sounds kind of scummy for the guy to say "I shouldn't have released redfall" in a weasely, roundabout fashion. He should just admit he was wrong.
It is what he did, he admitted that he/they should have done a better job with Redfall and other games to make sure they released with better quality and execution helping them where possible, and is dissapointed with the job that they (including him) did.

But said that he doesn't want to go to the point of changing the creative vision of the dev studio, he gives that to the dev team and if is wrong he can't do anything but accepts that it's part of the risk of new IPs: sometimes they will work and sometimes won't.
 

Yobo

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I watched most of the interview

Sounds like Phil is inching out of Xbox to me and he sounds more disappointed than usual

Redfall is just a cherry on top of the blows of the last few months. The real hurt would have been the CMA, and record breaking PS5 sales all while Sony isn't really moving an inch of promotional effort

I think Phil and Xbox have made things way more toxic on themselves too. The attempted acquisition of ABK has revealed their uglier side. Nobody really cared when some smaller studios and Bethesda got bought and essentially evened the number of studios for Microsoft and Sony. It's throwing their weight around buying the world biggest publisher that showed their real level of greed and has turned many against them
 

rofif

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Absolutely mental.
He admits to not giving a shit about physical games, single player traditional games, consoles generations, nothing. Everything that made gaming great, everything that made 360 BE WINNING PLATFORM until kinect... he now says it's not possible to win this way.
I am shocked lol. He says that nobody will start selling ps5 to get xbox because of good 11/10 games... dude... this is exactly why people got 360 back in the day.